D&D (2024) Size, Carrying Capacity, Strength, Athletics, Mobility

[tetrasodium]

@tetrasodium

Note, the 5e Players Handbook offers the variant rule that distinguishes between "Encumbered" and "Heavily Encumbered".

But no one I know chooses to use this variant, because no one wants to be bothered with tracking Encumbrance. It is unfun for the vast majority of players.

If Encumbrance rules are going to work, they need to be extremely simple, conceptually visualizable, plus with fun aspects.

Maybe thinking in terms of the Size of objects can work, instead of the weight. Maybe the AC Bonus from Strength/Dexterity is only possible while Unencumbered.

Probably most players agree Encumbrance would matter, but there needs to be a painless way to approach it.

I'm aware of the rule and have attempted to use it but 5e is designed to nullify that rule with a player level veto in the form of "Powerful build". The problems with that poorly designed option do not end there though, they extend to the fact that the "encumbered" state is both a cripplingly low vale due to still being linear and that it carries an entirely meaningless cost nobody cares about avoiding. The "heavily encumbered" just below it is still linear though & as a result either it has no impact or players ignore it (outright or via the veto noted above)

 

[Yaarel]

I'm aware of the rule and have attempted to use it but 5e is designed to nullify that rule with a player level veto in the form of "Powerful build". The problems with that poorly designed option do not end there though, they extend to the fact that the "encumbered" state is both a cripplingly low vale due to still being linear and that it carries an entirely meaningless cost nobody cares about avoiding. The "heavily encumbered" just below it is still linear though & as a result either it has no impact or players ignore it (outright or via the veto noted above)

I agree with your point.

At the same time, the reason 5e negligiblizes Encumbrance is because during 3e players hated Encumbrance.

I forget how 4e handles Encumbrance. I dont remember worrying about it or tracking it. Heh, not sure if I simply ignored the rules or the rules were simple.

 

[Yaarel]

Brainstorming Encumbrance. If of interest we can coordinate this approach with other mechanics later.

Armor Encumbrance. Encumbrance that is caused by armor is counted separately from the loads from other items. Armor is more about how much it gets in the way of Athletics stunts, rather than how much it actually weighs or what its size is.

Most items are Negligible. Unless one is Tiny, Negligible items dont count toward ones Encumbrance. Nonnegligible items qualify as a Size

A creature can Carry 7 items whose Size is one smaller. The eighth such item counts as the same Size as the carrier in total. An items that is two Sizes smaller than the carrier counts as Negligible if it is worn securely in reasonable a location or packed inside an other item. A Tiny creature can only carry 7 Negligible items. An item or a group of 8 items that is the same Size as or more than the carrier requires Weightlifting skill checks. Two or more characters can split a load if there is a reasonable way to securely carry the load together.


Negligible
• Dagger
• typical garment, such as shirt, pants, skirt, socks, belt, boots, etcetera
• wallet or securely belted moneypouch
• jewelry or similar adornment
• small vial (about the size of a testtube)


Tiny
• Shortsword
• Backpack
• Satchel, or purse hanging from strap
• Light Cloak, cape, mantle, etcetera
• Heavy Robe, or other fullbody winter clothing
• Pint Mug


Small
• Longsword
• Camper Backpack
• Heavy Cloak
• Coffer, Money Box (empty)


Medium
• Greatsword, or other Heavy Weapon, such as a polearm
• Carrying an Unconscious teammate who is Medium


Note. A Medium creature normally requires a Strength Weightlifting check to Carry a Heavy Weapon thus wield it without Disadvantage. A Small creature whose Strength Weightlifting check Carries a Heavy Weapon, can wield it normally.


SIZE-WEIGHT
The Size-Weight Table is a variant rule at the discretion of the DM. A DM might decide an accumulation of Negligible items is becoming unreasonable. Or a DM might wish to assign a Size to an unusual item, and knowing the weight might help decide. Each Size is a weight that is about 5 pounds times a multiple of 8. A DM should avoid precise calculations and rely on reason when near the cusp between Sizes. Use the Size categories as ballpark approximations. The Size-Weight Table for items should be in the Players Handbook so players are aware of it, but only the DM would be the one to invoke it.

GARGANTUAN: over 20,000 pounds
HUGE: upto roughly 20,000 pounds (20,480)
LARGE: upto roughly 2,500 pounds (2,560)
MEDIUM: upto roughly 300 pounds (320)
SMALL: upto roughly 40 pounds
TINY: upto roughly 5 pounds
NEGLIGIBLE: upto roughly ½ pound (0.625)

Note: 50 gold pieces weighs 1 pound. These are small thin coins. Compare a US $0.25 "quarter" weighs 0.2 ounces, a fifth of an ounce. Thus a gold piece is a bit less than two quarters. If familiar with the uncommon US 50 cent coin (also called the half-dollar coin), this is about the size and weight of a D&D gold piece.

GARGANTUAN: over a 1,000,000 gp
HUGE: upto roughly 1,000,000 gp
LARGE: upto roughly 128,000 gp
MEDIUM: upto roughly 16,000 gp
SMALL: upto roughly 2000 gp
TINY: upto roughly 250 gp
NEGLIGIBLE: upto about 30 gp

Notice most characters are porting around an amount of gold equivalent to Small Size.



So the above is the brainstorm. The gp coins come in ballparks without precise calculation. Negligible items normally dont count toward Encumbrance. The limit of seven one-Size-lower items are generous enough before invoking Weightlifting skill checks. Armor counts separately toward its own Armor Encumbrance.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Brainstorming Encumbrance. If of interest we can coordinate this approach with other mechanics later.

Armor Encumbrance. Encumbrance that is caused by armor is counted separately from the loads from other items. Armor is more about how much it gets in the way of Athletics stunts, rather than how much it actually weighs or what its size is.

Most items are Negligible. Unless one is Tiny, Negligible items dont count toward ones Encumbrance. Nonnegligible items qualify as a Size

A creature can Carry 7 items whose Size is one smaller. The eighth such item counts as the same Size as the carrier in total. An items that is two Sizes smaller than the carrier counts as Negligible if it is worn securely in reasonable a location or packed inside an other item. A Tiny creature can only carry 7 Negligible items. An item or a group of 8 items that is the same Size as or more than the carrier requires Weightlifting skill checks. Two or more characters can split a load if there is a reasonable way to securely carry the load together.


Negligible
• Dagger
• typical garment, such as shirt, pants, skirt, socks, belt, boots, etcetera
• wallet or securely belted moneypouch
• jewelry or similar adornment
• small vial (about the size of a testtube)


Tiny
• Shortsword
• Backpack
• Satchel, or purse hanging from strap
• Light Cloak, cape, mantle, etcetera
• Heavy Robe, or other fullbody winter clothing
• Pint Mug


Small
• Longsword
• Camper Backpack
• Heavy Cloak
• Coffer, Money Box (empty)


Medium
• Greatsword, or other Heavy Weapon, such as a polearm
• Carrying an Unconscious teammate who is Medium


Note. A Medium creature normally requires a Strength Weightlifting check to Carry a Heavy Weapon thus wield it without Disadvantage. A Small creature whose Strength Weightlifting check Carries a Heavy Weapon, can wield it normally.


SIZE-WEIGHT
The Size-Weight Table is a variant rule at the discretion of the DM. A DM might decide an accumulation of Negligible items is becoming unreasonable. Or a DM might wish to assign a Size to an unusual item, and knowing the weight might help decide. Each Size is a weight that is about 5 pounds times a multiple of 8. A DM should avoid precise calculations and rely on reason when near the cusp between Sizes. Use the Size categories as ballpark approximations. The Size-Weight Table for items should be in the Players Handbook so players are aware of it, but only the DM would be the one to invoke it.

GARGANTUAN: over 20,000 pounds
HUGE: upto roughly 20,000 pounds (20,480)
LARGE: upto roughly 2,500 pounds (2,560)
MEDIUM: upto roughly 300 pounds (320)
SMALL: upto roughly 40 pounds
TINY: upto roughly 5 pounds
NEGLIGIBLE: upto roughly ½ pound (0.625)

Note: 50 gold pieces weighs 1 pound. These are small thin coins. Compare a US $0.25 "quarter" weighs 0.2 ounces, a fifth of an ounce. Thus a gold piece is a bit less than two quarters. If familiar with the uncommon US 50 cent coin (also called the half-dollar coin), this is about the size and weight of a D&D gold piece.

GARGANTUAN: over a 1,000,000 gp
HUGE: upto roughly 1,000,000 gp
LARGE: upto roughly 128,000 gp
MEDIUM: upto roughly 16,000 gp
SMALL: upto roughly 2000 gp
TINY: upto roughly 250 gp
NEGLIGIBLE: upto about 30 gp

Notice most characters are porting around an amount of gold equivalent to Small Size.



So the above is the brainstorm. The gp coins come in ballparks without precise calculation. Negligible items normally dont count toward Encumbrance. The limit of seven one-Size-lower items are generous enough before invoking Weightlifting skill checks. Armor counts separately toward its own Armor Encumbrance.

i'd probably try go with something even simpler than that, something i've mused about before is carrying capacity is 3 'weight' per point in STR, 4 weight if they have athletics proficiency, (so a 10 STR character without athletics would have 30 carying capacity, and 10 STR+Athletics is 40) items have a value up to around 8, things like full plate being at the high end,

a really simple streamlined system like this is probably what people want if they're going to actually use encumberance in play, pounds and ounces might be actual weight values but they're impractical for calculating weight quickly and easilly IMO.

 

[Yaarel]

i'd probably try go with something even simpler than that, something i've mused about before is carrying capacity is 3 'weight' per point in STR, 4 weight if they have athletics proficiency, (so a 10 STR character without athletics would have 30 carying capacity) items have a value up to around 8, things like full plate being at the high end,

a really simple streamlined system like this is probably what people want if they're going to actually use encumberance in play, pounds and ounces might be actual weight values but they're impractical for calculating weight easilly IMO.

The numbers can total Strength (Bonus) + Weightlifting (Skill Proficiency).

Sizes as a unit seems simpler than assigning "points" which seem arbitrary and dont really refer to anything in reallife? I doubt unknowable numbers can simplify.

At least, Size mostly corresponds to reallife, except specified awkward items that might count as if one or two sizes larger, like a polearm.

The coins can add up quickly, but at least the Table can help the DM deal with truly enormous amounts of coins, if it matters.

 

[CreamCloud0]

The numbers can total Strength (Bonus) + Weightlifting (Skill Proficiency).

what numbers? i already gave my capacity calculation: Carying Capacity = STR x 3(4 if athletics).

Sizes as a unit seems simpler than assigning "points" which seem arbitrary and dont really refer to anything in reallife? I doubt unknowable numbers can simplify.

At least, Size mostly corresponds to reallife, except specified awkward items that might count as if one or two sizes larger, like a polearm.

The coins can add up quickly, but at least the Table can help the DM deal with truly enormous amounts of coins, if it matters.

the thing is size is not a consistent measure of weight, i don't exactly see how weight points don't relate to anything, weight is weight and they're a clear simple indicator of how heavy something is, sometimes making things refer to real life is worse for gameplay, the encumberance/weight system is already too complicated for it's own good, given that no-one uses it.

 

[Argyle King]

In reallife, a riding horse can carry easily a rider that is 20% of its own body mass. Example, a 1000 pound horse can carry a rider who is 200 pounds well.

From this with somewhat heavier approximations, it is probably feasible to guesstimate, a creature can carry a load that is one size lower without worrying about encumbrance.

• Large creature (Riding Horse)
• Medium load (Human)

Meanwhile, here, the easy load is typically upto 25% of the body mass, and one Size smaller.

Because the tallness increases linearly, but the body mass increases cubically, I need to doublecheck the body mass of fantastically tall humanlike bipeds. Probably, this can (over)simplify into ranges of body mass for each Size category that are simple enough to multiply when increasing Sizes larger or smaller.

Quadrupeds typically have higher carrying capacities than bipedal creatures.

 

[Yaarel]

what numbers? i already gave my capacity calculation: Carying Capacity = STR x 3(4 if athletics).

the thing is size is not a consistent measure of weight, i don't exactly see how weight points don't relate to anything, weight is weight and they're a clear simple indicator of how heavy something is, sometimes making things refer to real life is worse for gameplay, they system is already to complicated for it's own good.

I am thinking the "number" totaling Strength + Weightlifting determines something like the number of items of a smaller Size.

Size is already a 5e mechanic, with rules, and that correlates with the amount of space, height, and weight but in a loose flexible way.

Anything that remotely becomes bookkeeping is unlikely to be popular. But counting upto 7 significant items might be ok.

 

[Yaarel]

Quadrupeds typically have higher carrying capacities than bipedal creatures.

I need to go thru the reallife stats for comparison, but a D&D quadruped might automatically have Powerful Builld?

Still, the ideal load for both horses and humans happens to be about 20% lean bodymass. With some leeway.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I am thinking the "number" totaling Strength + Weightlifting determines something like the number of items of a smaller Size.

Size is already a 5e mechanic, with rules, and that correlates with the amount of space, height, and weight but in a loose flexible way.

Anything that remotely becomes bookkeeping is unlikely to be popular. But counting upto 7 significant items might be ok.

i'd just go with the simplest solution of 'if you have the strength, you can carry it.'