Size Increase: Help needed
- Thread starter Leopold
- Start date
Look more towards the bottom of the SRD 'Creature Overview' page, under 'Size Advances'.
To sum up: Add 8 to Strength, subtract 2 from Dex, add 4 to Con, add 3 to natural armor, and subtract 1 from attack bonus and the AC size adjustment. Oh, and increase damage die size from natural weapons per the chart there ... Net AC change will actually be +1, as it happens: -1 from size, -1 from Dex, and +3 from natural armor.
To sum up: Add 8 to Strength, subtract 2 from Dex, add 4 to Con, add 3 to natural armor, and subtract 1 from attack bonus and the AC size adjustment. Oh, and increase damage die size from natural weapons per the chart there ... Net AC change will actually be +1, as it happens: -1 from size, -1 from Dex, and +3 from natural armor.
Those modifiers look right, but note that they only apply for creature advancement-- such as for an advanced Umber Hulk at Huge size. If you gain the size increase via magic, or by class advancement (like the Dragon Disciple PrC), you get only the AC modifier, unless the spell or ability says otherwise.
Leopold
NKL4LYFE
Here's what I went from:
Grell Champion Philosopher: Large Aberation/Sor6; CR 10; HD 5d8+10 +6d4+12 HP 70; Init +2; Spd 40 ft. (fly); AC 17; Atks 10 tentacles +8 (1d4+2) 1 Bite +2 (2d4+1); Face/Reach 5x5 ft./5 ft.; SA Paralysis, improved grab, rend; SQ Electrical immunity, darkvision 60 ft; AL NE; SV Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +10.
Str 14, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 11, Wis 11, Cha 16.
Skills and Feats: Hide +4, Listen +10, Search +5, Spot +9 Concentration +8, Spellcraft +7; Weapon Focus (tentacle), Combat Casting;
Spells (6/6/5/3): Detect Magic, Resistance, Magic Missle, Stinking Cloud, Web, Dispel Magic, Lightning Bolt
to what I went to:
Grell Patriarc Philosopher: Huge Aberation/Sor8; CR 12; HD 5d8+10 +8d4+16 HP 80; Init +2; Spd 40 ft. (fly); AC 18; Atks 10 tentacles +9 (1d6+8) 1 Bite +3 (2d6+7); Face/Reach 10x10 ft./10 ft.; SA Paralysis, improved grab, rend; SQ Electrical immunity, darkvision 60 ft; AL NE; SV Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +11.
Str 22, Dex 12, Con 18, Int 11, Wis 11, Cha 17.
Skills and Feats: Hide +2, Listen +10, Search +7, Spot +10 Concentration +15, Spellcraft +10; Weapon Focus (tentacle), Combat Casting;
Spells (6/6/6/5/3): Burning Hands, Magic Missle, Phantasmal Force, Shield, Darkness 15’ Radius, Invisibility, Dispel Magic, Evard’s Black Tentacles.
Is this accurate? What about reach and size?
Grell Champion Philosopher: Large Aberation/Sor6; CR 10; HD 5d8+10 +6d4+12 HP 70; Init +2; Spd 40 ft. (fly); AC 17; Atks 10 tentacles +8 (1d4+2) 1 Bite +2 (2d4+1); Face/Reach 5x5 ft./5 ft.; SA Paralysis, improved grab, rend; SQ Electrical immunity, darkvision 60 ft; AL NE; SV Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +10.
Str 14, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 11, Wis 11, Cha 16.
Skills and Feats: Hide +4, Listen +10, Search +5, Spot +9 Concentration +8, Spellcraft +7; Weapon Focus (tentacle), Combat Casting;
Spells (6/6/5/3): Detect Magic, Resistance, Magic Missle, Stinking Cloud, Web, Dispel Magic, Lightning Bolt
to what I went to:
Grell Patriarc Philosopher: Huge Aberation/Sor8; CR 12; HD 5d8+10 +8d4+16 HP 80; Init +2; Spd 40 ft. (fly); AC 18; Atks 10 tentacles +9 (1d6+8) 1 Bite +3 (2d6+7); Face/Reach 10x10 ft./10 ft.; SA Paralysis, improved grab, rend; SQ Electrical immunity, darkvision 60 ft; AL NE; SV Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +11.
Str 22, Dex 12, Con 18, Int 11, Wis 11, Cha 17.
Skills and Feats: Hide +2, Listen +10, Search +7, Spot +10 Concentration +15, Spellcraft +10; Weapon Focus (tentacle), Combat Casting;
Spells (6/6/6/5/3): Burning Hands, Magic Missle, Phantasmal Force, Shield, Darkness 15’ Radius, Invisibility, Dispel Magic, Evard’s Black Tentacles.
Is this accurate? What about reach and size?
Last edited:
silvertable81
First Post
I was under the impression that the Sage sais the Drgon Disciple does get all benefits for growing. +4 STR, -2 DEX ...
CRGreathouse
Community Supporter
gfunk said:
The Sage's initial decision was crazy and wrong. I'm glad he changed his mind.
Celebrim
Legend
"Grell Patriarc Philosopher: Huge Aberation/Sor8; CR 12; HD 5d8+10 +8d4+16 HP 80; Init +2;..."
HD should be 5d8+8d4+52 (avg. hp 96) reflecting the increase in CON.
Initiative should fall to +1, reflecting decreased dexterity.
"Skills and Feats: Hide +2,..."
Hide should fall from +4 to -1, because dex went down by 2 (-1 decrease), and size went up by 1 (-4 decrease).
You've also raised a semi-problematic issue if we go by the standard rules. Normally, when a race goes up in size, it is because of an increase in base hit dice. Since you didn't go that way (just increased class levels), the Grell in question has an unusually low HD for a creature of Huge size. You can choose to ignore this if you want, but officially, skill points are computed based on the number of HD that the creature has in excess of the standard HD of creatures of its size. Thus, by the official rules, when the Grell got bigger (without increasing HD), it also got a degree less skillful. In this case, the EHD of the grell at size large is 3 (base 5 - 2). The EHD of the grell at size huge is 1 (base 5 - 4). As a result, the Huge version should have 4 less base skill points. Also, two additional levels of sorcerer should have only add 4 more skill points, so the net result is that they should have equal skills (except for hide going down by 5 and concentration going up by two).
If you want to avoid this, add a note to the huge version of your Grell that says, Skills: Grell Patriarchs have EHD as if they were large size creatures.
HD should be 5d8+8d4+52 (avg. hp 96) reflecting the increase in CON.
Initiative should fall to +1, reflecting decreased dexterity.
"Skills and Feats: Hide +2,..."
Hide should fall from +4 to -1, because dex went down by 2 (-1 decrease), and size went up by 1 (-4 decrease).
You've also raised a semi-problematic issue if we go by the standard rules. Normally, when a race goes up in size, it is because of an increase in base hit dice. Since you didn't go that way (just increased class levels), the Grell in question has an unusually low HD for a creature of Huge size. You can choose to ignore this if you want, but officially, skill points are computed based on the number of HD that the creature has in excess of the standard HD of creatures of its size. Thus, by the official rules, when the Grell got bigger (without increasing HD), it also got a degree less skillful. In this case, the EHD of the grell at size large is 3 (base 5 - 2). The EHD of the grell at size huge is 1 (base 5 - 4). As a result, the Huge version should have 4 less base skill points. Also, two additional levels of sorcerer should have only add 4 more skill points, so the net result is that they should have equal skills (except for hide going down by 5 and concentration going up by two).
If you want to avoid this, add a note to the huge version of your Grell that says, Skills: Grell Patriarchs have EHD as if they were large size creatures.
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