Size Large Feat???

[mistergone]

Hey

Mistergone: Thanks a bunch, I'll check it out. I've heard that some stuff from Swashbuckling Adventures is underpowered compared to normal D&D - would this be an exception to that statement?

-el snipo-

-Matt

The thing with Swashbuckling Adventures you have to consider is that it is based in a low-magic campaign setting. Seafaring, sword duelling, and flintlock firrearms are that world's things. Sure, it has other elements, but overall, it's low-magic, so a lot of the rules it presents are skewed towards making characters more skilled/effective in other areas. As others have said about it, using the rules presented in SA in a regular D&D campaign would unbalance the game in some ways. Personally, I love low-magic settings.

 

[Saeviomagy]

If you made the prerequisites of the 'large size' feat to be having the average stats a large human would have according to the DMG (ie - a minimum strength of 11 (3+8), a maximum dex of 16(18-2), a minimum con of 7 (3+4)), then you could just say that the characters existing stats are the effect of him being large (or he's large because of his existing stats).

You DON'T give him the stat bonuses for being large. You DO give him the penalties to hit and damage. You DO give him the reach and armour.

The sum total bonuses over normal will be:
+1 ac (from natural armour 2 minus size penalty of 1)
-1 to hit

+5 foot of reach

-4 to hide

double price and weight on armour, most magical armours will be unusable.

ability to wield larger weapons, inability to wield smaller weapons.

Personally I'd say that +1 ac balances out with -1 to hit (check expertise - it's far more powerful than just having this modification permanently)

So we're left with the last 4 elements on the list.
Are they balanced for a feat? I don't know. The most difficult one is the reach increase. The closest comparison is probably the exotic weapon proficiency in spiked chain - it will effectively give your character that much reach, plus some other bonuses.

I'd say it's pretty close, and I'd be willing to allow a character to take such a feat - at low level, the penalties are great, and at high level, the bonuses become significantly lessened.

 

[Hypersmurf]

ability to wield larger weapons, inability to wield smaller weapons.

Huh? Inability? Where's that from?

The most difficult one is the reach increase. The closest comparison is probably the exotic weapon proficiency in spiked chain - it will effectively give your character that much reach, plus some other bonuses.

Of course, Spiked Chain threatens 5'-10', does 2d4 damage, and has a 20/x2 threat range.

A Huge Greatsword threatens 5'-10', does 2d8 damage, and has a 19-20/x2 threat range.

A Huge Spiked Chain (sure, it's another feat, but...) threatens 5'-20', does 2d6 damage, and has a 20/x2 threat range.

Not to mention the ability to cast touch-range spells from 10 feet away.

-Hyp.

 

[Wolf72]

weapons: I think the poster meant that a large creature would be unable to wield tiny weapons (small weapons would take over as the creatures tiny category) ...

 

[Andion Isurand]

Shard O'Glase....

If the PrC allowed the Barbarian to become large whenever they rage, their equipment would break unless the size changing ability was a supernatural ability....

however, then the barbarian class would cross over from its primarilly "Extraordinary" nature.

I would build the Barbarian PrC to let them experience a long lasting growth spurt over the course of the PrC levels, finally becoming Large sized in an "extraordinarilly instantaneous" sort of way....

That way, they have to take the good with the bad and there is less math involved when going between medium and large size.

"The Hulk" sounds more like a template... like lycanthropy.... that can be added to any pre-existing creature. Remember that the doctor's origonal human form, was no Barbarian.

 

[Hypersmurf]

weapons: I think the poster meant that a large creature would be unable to wield tiny weapons (small weapons would take over as the creatures tiny category) ...

I can find the definition of weapons that are too large... I can't find one for too small. But I'm at work, so I don't have my books...

Is there a reference somewhere that says creatures can't use weapons more than two size categories smaller than they are?

-Hyp.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Hypersmurf

Ooops - you're right. I think maybe I just assumed that a creature couldn't wield a weapon 2 sizes larger or smaller than it was...

As to casting touch spells from 10'? That's not the big benefit to 10' reach. Unless you're fighting a creature with 10' reach itself, it hardly makes a difference (compare the ability with something like spring attack for instance...).

The primary benefit is in the increased quantities of AoO attacks you get.

 

[Hypersmurf]

As to casting touch spells from 10'? That's not the big benefit to 10' reach. Unless you're fighting a creature with 10' reach itself, it hardly makes a difference (compare the ability with something like spring attack for instance...).

The primary benefit is in the increased quantities of AoO attacks you get.

Oh, I agree, and that's one of the biggest benefits of the Spiked Chain. But a feat for Large size equals or - more often - trumps Spiked Chain in every way.

Spiked Chain threatens 5 feet and 10 feet - Huge Greatsword threatens 5 feet and 10 feet.

Spiked Chain does 2d4 damage - Huge Greatsword does 2d8.

Spiked Chain has a 20 threat range - Huge Greatsword has 19-20.

Spiked Chain gets +2 to Disarm checks - Huge Greatsword, one size larger, gets a relative +4.

Spiked Chain gets a +2 to Trip checks - a Large creature gets +4.

A Spiked Chain can get turned against you by a Kyton

And on top of all that, you also get your 10' touch spells. I'm not saying that's a big benefit... but it's an extra benefit of the Feat that Spiked Chain doesn't give you.

-Hyp.

 

[Argus Decimus Mokira]

Hey

Thanks a lot guys for the comments! I think I'm gonna start a thread in the House Rules forum about this, cause people seem to be heading that way with the discussion. For the record, I think that with ability requirements, significant role-playing penalties (a big no-no I understand, but for my game it will suffice), and the costs of living a Large life will balance the increased reach ... a lot of this has to do with my world, a lowish-magic, low-fantasy setting where there are NO ogres, elves, dwarves etc so such a person would bear a lot of pain from the common people - I wasn't kidding about the stonings.

later
-Matt

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Re: Shard O'Glase....

If the PrC allowed the Barbarian to become large whenever they rage, their equipment would break unless the size changing ability was a supernatural ability....

Well if the ability was high enough level the class could just assume that your wearing magical stuff so it resizes with you. But still for a presitge class I see no problem dipping into the SU for a barbarian. I think I'm going t have to work on this.