Skill-Based Everything.

[ardentmoth]

For a campaign setting I am designing, I am pondering the feasibility of skill-based psionics, skill-based divine casting, and skill-based arcane casting.

Here's my justification, maybe someone can point me toward resources that would help:

The setting is human-centric, relatively low-magic (though i'm not going to disallow strong spells by any means). As such, I'm allowing all core classes (and two of my own), with minor changes. In this setting, I say that anyone can learn a little magic, if they just put the effort into it (and are attribute-wise able to do cast what they learn). Say a fighter with 11 intelligence happens upon a tome of magic. from it, he might earn arcane casting as a class skill, with one point in it. each level (or when i say, lol), he could assign points to it to get better at it. No penalty other than armor, etc.

Dedicated casters (wizards, clerics, sorcerers, psions, wilders, and priests) will instead gain bonuses to skill level of their chosen type, making their casting more of a "skill specialization."

the problem: Psionics runs off of a points system, unlike Arc/Div magic. Skill-based Psionics would need some kind of formula i would think, to determine points, which is similar in potency to the formulas used for Arc/Div magic.

Thoughts, resources, advice?

 

[dystmesis]

Check out Elements of Magic: Mythic Earth. It's a nice skill-based magic system that was designed for d20 modern, but could easily be used in D&D.

 

[Scurvy_Platypus]

Well for doing magic, my pick is the Unusual Core Classes: Spellweaver
http://enworld.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?it=1&products_id=12636

For psionics the system I want to use (but haven't yet) is the Psychic's Handbook from Green Ronin. You can find the physical book without too much difficulty. Ebay has a couple of listings for example. Amazon's copies of this are over-priced.

They also included all the information from that book in their Advanced Player's Manual. You can find that in print or pdf. PDF here:
http://enworld.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=18897&it=1
There's print versions of this that aren't hard to find either. Ebay and Amazon both have copies of this listed.

After that... hmmm. Well, there's always the Advanced Magic book from Guardians of Order. They used a skill based approach. Actually, BESMd20 has every (including combat) as skill based. Spell stuff does use Energy Points as well. The system presented in Advanced Magic though says that if you're using it in a game that doesn't use Energy Points, just have it do non-lethal damage instead. The Jump spell in Advanced Magic for example has a DC of 21 and does 1d6 Drain. So, if you use Energy Points that comes out of the caster's pool, and if not then it does non-lethal damage instead. Note that the Drain is suffered if you fail your Saving Throw. Advanced Magic is an expansion of the system that was used in Slayers d20.

Green Ronin also did a version of skill based magic in the Black Company rpg, which seems to be loved by people into the whole grim-n-gritty-low-magic kind of thing. That was split off and expanded into True Sorcery.

Is it a True 20 book? Well, the pdf sports the logo but I recall a number of True 20 fans that were less than impressed with the book and had others rushing to defend it with claims that is wasn't "really" a True 20 book, just unfortunately named. *shrug* I've no real idea, and since neither the Black Company rpg nor True 20 really excited me, you'll have to get feedback about this from one of the many True 20 fans out there.

PDF here:
http://enworld.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=20498&it=1

As for the cleric stuff... I dunno. I mean really, all clerics seem to be is god powered mages, so I don't see why one of the various skill systems wouldn't work just fine for the clerics. I don't particularly like casters in default D&D/d20 though, so there could be some nuance I'm missing.

None of the stuff I've mentioned really matches exactly what you're talking about though, at least not to my knowledge. What you seem to be talking about is more like a non-class based system.

You could always take a look at the Anime SRD, which is the SRD version of BESMd20. The Advanced Magic book I mentioned above was made to work with it as well as in other d20 based systems. You can still find the SRD here: http://www.opengamingfoundation.org/animesrd.html

Chances are you aren't going to want to actually use it (it makes combat skill based too), but it might give you pointers to be able to integrate you idea better. In general, BESMd20 didn't really work for most of the d20 fans out there for a variety of reasons.

 

[ardentmoth]

Thanks, to both of you. I will comment on this again once I've got something more concrete in my mind. Time to go find some books, lol...

 

[ardentmoth]

I rediscovered Siege of Avalon (Anthology CD for like ten bucks, woot woot).

I think I'll probably just port out that system for D20 use, maybe it would work nicely....

 

[Arkhandus]

I believe the product True Sorcery, or was it Legends of Sorcery? has a skill-based version of the D&D magic system, providing the rules and skill check DCs for casting spells from the core rules using the book's magic skills. It's been too long since I read about it to remember which of those products it was. -_- I generally don't mind the class-based magic system, so I just never bothered with that kind of product.

EDIT: Good news! I did remember it correctly, it was Legends of Sorcery. Here's the link to its description and all. Good ol' D&D spells converted to a skill-based casting system for d20, no spell points or the like. And a Base Magic Bonus, so the main spellcasting classes do have an advantage over those who just put ranks into the skills.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Legends of Sorcery is excellent, and should do everything you want it to, including dialling the magic up or down for the campaign you want to run. There are even base classes provided for low magic* and medium magic** campaigns. For high magic, D&D core casters are assumed. You can use any d20 spell as it stands with this system, which is rather convenient. Best of both worlds, I found.

The Psychic's Handbook gives you a skills 'n feats system of psychic powers, with a class that excels in their use. However, they are usable by anyone who takes the right feats and so on. Again, thoroughly recommended.

I would also suggest Miracles & Wonders, or perhaps even Testament. Something to add some more 'depth via mechanics' (odd though that sounds) to divine casters, anyway. But this is purely a personal preference, is something that could be homebrewed of course, and was only mentioned because it sounds like it might suit your preferences too. Possibly not.


* Alchemist, Artificer, Holy Man, Naturalist, Sage
** Elementalist, Hermit, Monk (shares a name only), Pagan Priest, Priest, Seer, Trickster

 

[SSquirrel]

Monte Cook's d20 World of Darkness has a magic system that has you build the spell effect you want based on various components (Range, Damage, Duration, etc)

 

[ardentmoth]

WOO! Legends of Sorcery is essentially and precisely what I need to finish this system! Thanks again for the feedback, I'll be working on this, and let everyone know If i come up with something intriguing (lol).