D&D 5E Skill Challenges in 5E

[Warbringer]

I'm with Imaro here; its seems skill challenges have developed into so much of an intuitive "feel for the situation thing" that it's impossible to write down any rules for them....

Pretty darn certain I said no such thing, and developing to being more flexible is not "impossible to right down".

To me, and in my campaign, SCs are always an alternative the players have to engage the scene ahead of them. They decide that the best way through is by talking to the guard and charming/threatening him, or bashing his brains out with a heavy wooden stick. As DM I have rules that direct my interaction with them so that they know what to expect (namely a table that tells them how many successes they need based on level, plus circumstances, plus if the opponent is skilled in the situation). Based on the situation I suggest the skills I consider "best"* and then they tell me what they are doing narratively.

The point of the "DCs" and "successes" is discrete number for them to reach that tells us collectively the outcome of the scene in terms of benefits or consequences.

For what is worth, we have used this system for combat as well, rather than zooming all the way into D&D combat rules**.

The point of the rules is to propagate the story through mechanical resolution, no matter the degree of simulation. Its all negotiating obstacles and results for complete success, partial success and consequence of failure

--
*I use set DCs plus "critical success". So a "best" skill has a DC of 10, "useful" a DC of 12 and everything else DC15.

** in this situation daily power use DC 10, encounter DC 12 and at will DC15 are the targets for success generation

 

[Starfox]

To me, and in my campaign, SCs are always an alternative the players have to engage the scene ahead of them.

You're trying to tell me there are official rules that covers this situation by saying "in my campaign"?

 

[WhatGravitas]

Wait so competent climbers never slip and fall?? And when they do it's "silly"? I'm not understanding why falling isn't a viable option... Could you give some examples of "appropriate" narration of a climbing failure?

"You notice the wall is more brittle and loose than anticipated. You still just manage to traverse the climb, but you loosen the brickwork, everybody following you will have a harder time."

Bam. Narrative reason for the skill DC increase over the standard PHB DC and a reason why the "fail" is one - it makes it harder to get out, meaning the main goal (everybody over the abyss) is harder/more dangerous to achieve.

Fail forward in action.

 

[Mistwell]

I am guessing there will be a section in the DMG giving advice on how to resolve skill-heavy encounters...but I seriously doubt at this point there will be a skill challenges system at all in 5e. I think, overall, it became more trouble than it was worth for WOTC, and they're going to stay away from that topic entirely.

 

[Imaro]

"You notice the wall is more brittle and loose than anticipated. You still just manage to traverse the climb, but you loosen the brickwork, everybody following you will have a harder time."

Cool. Though it still doesn't address why a competent person can't slip and fall when climbing... or why that happening is inherently "silly"... or why this isn't just as silly... "DOPE!!! (headpalm)that goofball just loosened the brickwork for everyone else... even though he's a "competent" climber...

Bam. Narrative reason for the skill DC increase over the standard PHB DC and a reason why the "fail" is one - it makes it harder to get out, meaning the main goal (everybody over the abyss) is harder/more dangerous to achieve.

So the fiction is being forced to conform to the mechanics... every wall the PC's encounter as part of a skill challenge has something different about it that makes it harder to climb than a regular wall... Uhm, ok... this doesn't seem far fetched, but slipping and falling is considered silly.

You realize in this narrative he didn't fail right? He actually succeeded in traversing the climb... You also realize from a mechanical perspective the chances for anyone else climbing are still the same, not any harder, even though you've decided to change the fiction of the wall (I guess now fiction and mechanics are separate)... if the brickwork has been loosened why is the DC the same?

Fail forward in action.

Refresh my memory again, where in the 4e core books does it state that "failing forward" is necessary for SC's or even a part of the game proper...

 

[Imaro]

*I use set DCs plus "critical success". So a "best" skill has a DC of 10, "useful" a DC of 12 and everything else DC15.

So you're not really running SC's by the book...

 

[Warbringer]

So you're not really running SC's by the book...

Never claimed I was

There are clearly issues with SCs as written. I didn't give up with the concept and worked with my players to come up with a working ruleset, this was part of the construct.

But the topic was Skill Challenges in 5e, not 4e SCs in 5e

 

[Warbringer]

....

 

[Warbringer]

You're trying to tell me there are official rules that covers this situation by saying "in my campaign"?

I was trying to share that the concept can work, even though RAW was heavy handed in its approach.

 

[pemerton]

Wait so competent climbers never slip and fall?? And when they do it's "silly"? I'm not understanding why falling isn't a viable option

Because [MENTION=5143]Majoru Oakheart[/MENTION] gave the example of a skill challenge in which the objective difficulty of the wall being climbed didn't match up to the DC of the Athletics check that the rogue attempted as part of the skill challenge - hence, narrating the skill failure as a fall creates an incongruence between what we already know the rogue is capable of, and what is happening in the fiction.

Could you give some examples of "appropriate" narration of a climbing failure?

[MENTION=33132]WhatGravitas[/MENTION] covered this.

Refresh my memory again, where in the 4e core books does it state that "failing forward" is necessary for SC's or even a part of the game proper...

4e DMG p 72:

Define the goal of the challenge and what obstacles the characters face to accomplish that goal. The goal has everything to do with the overall story of the adventure. Success at the challenge should be important to the adventure, but not essential. You don’t want a series of bad skill checks to bring the adventure to a grinding halt. At worst, failure at the challenge should send the characters on a long detour, thereby creating a new and interesting part of the adventure.​

Plus there's all the stuff in DMG2 that Robin Laws cut-and-pasted from his HeroQuest Revised rulebook.