Skill Complications: A Combat-Like Approach to Skill Encounters

[RaynerApe]

Frostmarrow, I see a great idea for a PDF commercial product if one could gather 1000s of such common situations, build them together with proper index and sell them. It would be great if I could have all common challenges for a fantasy prison (break cell, bribe guard, intimidate inmate, etc.) grouped together, etc.

 

[Frostmarrow]

Don't look at me. The idea belongs to Firelance. However, I agree it would make a great product.

 

[Frostmarrow]

Up on a Soapbox DC: 15 6/3
Score 6 successes to instigate a rabble into action (diplomacy and intimidate, suggested). They can block a street, tear down pampflets, or even oppose local guards.

Oh Yeah?!
Standard: Unconvinced members of the audience raise arguments against the proposed course of action. +5 vs passive diplomacy, against the speaker with the highest skill. Counts as 1 failure.

or

You're Not the Lord of Me!
Standard: A cocky member of the mob declares his independence. +5 vs passive intimidate against the the speaker with the highest skill. Counts as 1 failure.

Rotten Tomatoes
Uncharged: A single tomato, a harbinger if discontent, is thrown against a randomly selected speaker. +5 vs passive acrobatics. Counts as 1 failure.

You're Not That Tough
Encounter: A large burly man tries to take the stage. +10 vs passive athletics against whomever volunteers to stand in the way. Counts as 1 failure.

Failure
After a barrage of vegetables the crowd disperses.

 

[RyvenCedrylle]

I've read both this method and Stalker's method (actually 2) of skill challenges and find this one to be the superior version.

I'm running "Heathen" from Dungeon #155; it contains a large skill challenge that I find difficult to understand RAW - the characters must navigate through a forest with no map to find various villages and gather information about an unknown location. The concept is simple, but the description is confusing. I've rewritten the challenge using this system - I'd love to hear your feedback, especially if you know the actual challenge from the module.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Lost in the Woods DC: 17 (Lvl 5) 12/6
Score 12 successes to find 6 villages and gain a piece of inforation about the quest at hand from each village. Each 2 successes locates a small hamlet where something can be discovered (no social checks needed - plot device)

Primary Skills
Nature (follow tracks, determine where a settlement might be by water availability, etc.); Perception (hearing sounds of or seeing agrculture); Endurance (force march to cover more ground - also Recovery); Athletics (climbing trees to get a better view)

Bonus Skills
History (1x); Religion (1x)

Torrential Downpour Minor
Excessive rain makes tracking difficult. DC 22 Nature (or +12 vs Passive Nature) Counts as one failure.

Restless Sleep Standard
Biting bugs and long marches wear at the body. Two random characters make DC 17 Endurance (or +7 vs. Passive Endurance) to continue. Failure adds -2 penalty to next Skill check and counts as one failure each.

Undergrowth Standard
Poisonous plants, vines and barbs poke and hinder your movement. DC 17 (no Passive) Heal. Counts as one failure.

Overgrown Paths Minor
Paths have mulitple, conflicting sets of tracks; are covered over by erosion and deadfall. DC 22 Perception (or +12 vs. Passive Perception). Counts as one failure.

Success: Characters arrive in Erstlin for encounter "Village Showdown"; afterward, a young girl gives clear direction to the Black March (per the module)
Failure: Characters stumble into Erstlin for encounter "Village Showdown"; no clear direction - characters led into encounter "Blades in the Night" (per the module)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I figure I can average between 1 and 2.5 failures per round, allowing me to fiddle with the pacing as need be. Comments?

EDIT: Firelance, Frostmarrow, whoever - if you guys want to compile a pdf to sell, count me in on the writing. How many monsters in the MM? We could start with about that many and heck, they're selling it for $35!

 

[FireLance]

Don't look at me. The idea belongs to Firelance. However, I agree it would make a great product.

Heh. I just came up with the basic idea of separate rolls for successes and failures. I can't take credit for your specific skill complications.

 

[Frostmarrow]

Heh. I just came up with the basic idea of separate rolls for successes and failures. I can't take credit for your specific skill complications.

Of course not. But you do have the right of first refusal.

I'm going to check out Heathen and compare it to Ryven's version.

 

[FireLance]

I've read both this method and Stalker's method (actually 2) of skill challenges and find this one to be the superior version.

Thanks!

I'm running "Heathen" from Dungeon #155; it contains a large skill challenge that I find difficult to understand RAW - the characters must navigate through a forest with no map to find various villages and gather information about an unknown location. The concept is simple, but the description is confusing. I've rewritten the challenge using this system - I'd love to hear your feedback, especially if you know the actual challenge from the module.

I've done a quick read-through of the skill challenge, and I think this is how it's supposed to be run (SBLOCK'ed for possible spoilers):

[SBLOCK]1. It's a complexity 5 challenge, so the PCs need to earn 12 successes before they accumulate 6 failures.

2. Each day that the party spends traveling, they make a group DC 18 Endurance check. Presumably, this means that the character with the highest Endurance modifier can make the check, and the rest of the party may use Aid Another to help him. If the check succeeds, the party earns one success; otherwise, it accumulates one failure and every character gets a -2 penalty on the next Endurance check. [Comment: The combination of the Low DC and the possibility of using Aid Another to help a single character makes it quite likely that the party will succeed on this check.]

3. Each day that the party spends traveling, one character may make a DC 22 Nature check. If the check succeeds, the party earns one success and finds a village, opening up the chance to make Diplomacy, Streetwise, and Perception checks (see below); otherwise, it accumulates one failure. [Comment: A trained character should have a base +7 modifier, and if he can get another +4 in modifiers, say 18 Wisdom, or Skill Focus and 12 Wisdom, or being an elf and 14 Wisdom, he will have an even chance to succeed at it.]

4. When the party finds a village, one character may attempt a DC 22 Diplomacy check per day. If the check succeeds, the characters gain a +2 bonus on the next Streetwise or Perception checks made in that village; otherwise, the party gains a -2 penalty on Streetwise and Perception checks, and the party cannot use Diplomacy in that village again, but may re-try the Diplomacy check in a new village. The party does not gain successes or failures for attempting a Diplomacy check.

5. When in a village, each character may attempt a DC 26 Streetwise check to gather information. If the check succeeds, the party earns one success and one piece of information; otherwise, it accumulates one failure. [Comment: the high DC makes it a bad proposition even for characters trained in Streetwise.]

6. When in a village, one character may attempt a DC 22 Perception check to gather information. If the check succeeds, the party earns one success and one piece of information; otherwise, it accumulates one failure. [Comment: this method of gathering information has a more reasonable chance of success, especially if a character had succeeded at a Diplomacy check earlier.]

7. When the PCs have earned 11 successes or accumulated 5 failures, run the "Village Showdown" encounter.

8. Regardless of whether the PCs succeed or fail the skill challenge, run the "Blades in the Night" encounter.[/SBLOCK]
Overall Comments:
[SBLOCK]Regardless of whether the PCs win or lose the skill challenge, it doesn't appear as if the adventure will change very much. In fact, the only gains from winning the skill challenge appear to be the additional experience and possibly hearing additional rumors.

Yes, possibly. It seems that it is possible (although admittedly unlikely) to win the skill challenge without hearing any rumors, or, for that matter, entering any villages, by simply making Endurance and Nature checks. In-game, I guess this can be narrated as the party following Jaryn's tracks through the wilderness.

The skill challenge is certainly usable as written, and the consequences for each individual skill check can be easily narrated so that they appear reasonable from the player's perspective. If the PCs don't win the challenge, the adventure continues smoothly and the players may not ever find out that they've missed out on 1,000 xp.

However, if I was the DM running the scenario, I'd want winning or losing the skill challenge to have more of an effect on subsequent events in the adventure. I'll need some time to think about it, then I'll post some ideas.[/SBLOCK]

 

[Frostmarrow]

I think extra information and XP is just enough as a reward. However, I find the entire challenge weird. The same goes for the other challenge, Among The Wolves. They are not very intuitive. Also, all these bonuses and penaltied tied to set rolls does nothing to enchance the game experience.

Somehow I get the impression Heathen was written before the rules for challenges were finished. But I haven't read the DMG so I don't know for sure.

I like Ryven's version better as it not only free the players do do what they want but it also creates atmosphere with the torrential downpours and undergrowth.

 

[RyvenCedrylle]

Glad you all approve. Some design notes for my version of this challenge:

1) I have to describe how many exactly similar towns? No thanks.

2) I'm a plot guy. The idea that you could do a skill challenge this long and possibly not come away with any detail info annoys me. I'll spot you a few and let you work out the rest over the course of the encounter. Similarly...

3) Exactly how many rolls are we going to make here? Per village: [1 Nature and then 1 Diplomacy and then X Streetwise/Perception (where X is the number of PCs)]x some number of villages. Also, we make a group Endurance check (?) every night (how many nights between villages?), but each character can sustain a -2? That is a boatload of rolls for what's really not that much gain. I realize some of those details are left to the DM, but it just seems so bloody swingy.

4) While I like the idea of a merged skill check and combat situation, throwing the Erstlin encounter right before the skill check ends feels weird - like a false ending. "Yay, we won! Wait, what? We're not done with this challenge YET?" I'd rather pop it on the end and make them go two clear back-to-back tactical encounters instead if necessary.

5) Aid Another - I've been debating this. No way can you Aid on Restless Sleep. I think I'll allow it for the other checks, granting a +1 (maybe 2) if you beat the same Skill check 4 lower (DC13 to Aid a 17, DC 18 to Aid a 22, etc.). I may regret this.

 

[Frostmarrow]

It seems to me that 12 successes is too much for an encounter like this. I might be wrong as I haven't actually play-tested it. But with 12 successes each player will have to come up with 5-6 uses of his skills to apply to the challenge. That might be stretching it. The encounter takes place in the borderlands after all.