Skill Groups

Croesus

Adventurer
I'm working on tweaking the rules and I want to reduce the number of skills. I know there have been several threads in the past where folks have posted their take on combining skills, but I can't locate any.

Anyone who has combined skills, would you mind posting your work, or a link? I'd rather steal someone else's good idea, than have to reinvent the wheel myself.

Thanks.
 

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Nifft

Penguin Herder


GlassJaw

Hero
Here are mine:

Acrobatics (Dex): Balance, Escape Artist, and Tumble
Athletics (Str): Climb, Jump, and Swim
Disable Device (Int): Includes Open Locks (Dex)
Handle Animal (Cha): Includes Ride (Dex)
Stealth (Dex): Hide and Move Silently
Perception (Wis): Listen and Spot
Persuade (Cha): Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate
Survival (Wis): Includes Use Rope (Dex)
 



DreamChaser

Explorer
Here's a thought...

Though this would require reducing skill points per level by about half.

Acrobatics (Balance, Escape Artist, Tumble)
Arcana (Knowledge (Arcana) + Spellcraft + Use Magic Device)
Athletics (Climb, Jump, Swim)
Craft (Appraise, Craft)
Decipher Script (Decipher Script, Forgery)
Disable Device (Disable Device, Open Locks, Use Rope)
Gather Information (Gather Information + Knowledge, Local)
Handle Animal (Ride + Handle Animal)
Heal (Heal + Profession (herbalist))
Intuition (Handle Animal + Sense Motive)
Perception (Listen, Spot)
Perform (Disguise, Perform)
Persuade (Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate)
Search
Sleight of Hand
Stealth (Hide, Move Silently)
Survival (Survival + Knowledge (Geography))

Concentration (fort save)
Knowledge / Profession (linked)
Speak Language (still weird)

(and I know Handle Animal appears twice...I didn't think that would really break the game and both make sense).

DC
 

GlassJaw

Hero
DreamChaser said:
Though this would require reducing skill points per level by about half./QUOTE]

Well that all depends how much of a "skill" game you want to run. I actually like it when the character have more skill points. I've found it actually encourages dynamic play as there are more points for skills like Tumble, Balance, Jump, etc.
Arcana (Knowledge (Arcana) + Spellcraft + Use Magic Device)[/QUOTE]

Not sure I like this. Spellcraft and UMD are both very powerful.

Craft (Appraise, Craft)

Definitely like this. Appraise never seemed that useful. I would still keep the Appraise skill as-is but allow Appraise checks to be made on items with the associated Craft skill.

Decipher Script (Decipher Script, Forgery)

Makes sense, although Decipher Script doesn't have much to do with physical copying/writing of documents.

Disable Device (Disable Device, Open Locks, Use Rope)

I think Use Rope is better off combined with Survival or even Sleight of Hand.

Intuition (Handle Animal + Sense Motive)

Definitely don't like this. Animals aren't people.

Perform (Disguise, Perform)

I like this.

Survival (Survival + Knowledge (Geography))

Survival in a hostile environment doesn't mean you necessarily know where you are.
 

DreamChaser

Explorer
Ahhh...but you're missing the point of most of those combinations, which is to create skills that it makes sense for adventurers to take. Also, saying that they're separate things is of course true but so is hiding and moving silently.

The idea is thematic link and usefulness to a character. I can swim but I'm a lousy jumper and a mediocre climber. How would I represent this with grouped skills? I wouldn't. Can combining them help make the system more enjoyable? It could.

On specifics:

Arcana - Spellcraft does one thing...and I can honestly say that the only time I as a player (or one of my players when I DM) make a check for it is when told to by the DM. I can understand keeping UMD out though.

Decipher Script - Forgery is a non-skill. The chances of it being needed are few and far between and it is not one I've ever seen people jump at taking.

Use rope - this is an awkward one. I don't like it as a skill and I don't think it fits naturally with one area over another. Disable device (to handle the string components), craft (weaving, trapmaking), survival, Ride, Profession (sailor, teamster, etc).

Intuition - No animals aren't people but people are animals. If you watch what humans do, you see that we follow many of the same patterns. I didn't want to lump it in with perception because I think that one would be too powerful. If you specialize in observing body language, tone, and attitude, you can deal well with animals or people. Note that it isn't influence (which should be separate) but simply understanding that would be affected by these skills.

Survival + Know (Geography) - Show me a well trained survivalist who cannot rapidly discern the lay of the land well enough to draw a rough map of where they've been and I'll eat my hat (okay I don't wear hats but you get the point). My point is, no one takes Know (geog) unless a) they are taking all the knowledges, or b) they are a ranger and feel like they have to. Also, Know (Geog) grants a synergy bonus to survival.

DC
 

GlassJaw

Hero
DreamChaser said:
Arcana - Spellcraft does one thing...and I can honestly say that the only time I as a player (or one of my players when I DM) make a check for it is when told to by the DM. I can understand keeping UMD out though.

But this kind of screws the divine casters. Spellcraft isn't arcane-specific. My gut tells me to leave the magic skills alone.

Decipher Script - Forgery is a non-skill. The chances of it being needed are few and far between and it is not one I've ever seen people jump at taking.

Agreed.

Use rope - this is an awkward one. I don't like it as a skill and I don't think it fits naturally with one area over another. Disable device (to handle the string components), craft (weaving, trapmaking), survival, Ride, Profession (sailor, teamster, etc).

Agreed, and Use Rope is a skill that is used with take 10 or 20 90+% of the time. The DC's aren't even that high. It's pretty much usable by anyone who doesn't have any ranks in it. Because of this, I'm almost inclined to remove it as a skill altogether or let the player use a comparable skill (like you listed).

Intuition - No animals aren't people but people are animals. If you watch what humans do, you see that we follow many of the same patterns. I didn't want to lump it in with perception because I think that one would be too powerful. If you specialize in observing body language, tone, and attitude, you can deal well with animals or people. Note that it isn't influence (which should be separate) but simply understanding that would be affected by these skills.

Still don't like combining these. Personal preference I suppose. They just seem too unrelated in a gaming sense.

Survival + Know (Geography) - Show me a well trained survivalist who cannot rapidly discern the lay of the land well enough to draw a rough map of where they've been and I'll eat my hat (okay I don't wear hats but you get the point). My point is, no one takes Know (geog) unless a) they are taking all the knowledges, or b) they are a ranger and feel like they have to. Also, Know (Geog) grants a synergy bonus to survival.

I agree this isn't a stretch but combing a Knowledge skill with another skill opens up some other issues. Why not include Knowledge (nature) with Survival as well or combine every Knowledge skill that grants a synergy bonus with that skill?
 
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