Skill modifiers: how good are you?

[J_D]

RAW, Synergy bonuses stack.

I looked closer, and you're right. I stand corrected.... at least partially. It does say that the synergy bonuses for Bluff and Sense Motive stack, but I see no mention of Knowledge (Nobility) having a synergy bonus, much less it stacking with the other two.

That being said, though, I still wouldn't allow it in my game. Call it a house rule, but I still think synergy bonuses should not stack. Pick whichever one is most applicable, but only that one. I would allow a synergy bonus for Knowledge (Nobility) if the diplomacy check was for a negotiation with nobles since that does make sense, but I wouldn't let it stack with other synergies.

Edit:

The rule for Bluff and Sense Motive synergy bonuses stacking is a rule specific to the Diplomacy skill. There is no general rule I can find that states synergy bonuses stack. That's a consistency issue with me; I don't believe in exceptions. Synergy bonuses should either stack or not stack across the board.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

And if a DM "hysterically laughed in my face" over such a thing, I'd say something to the effect of "Grow up," and point out that, RAW, they do stack.

EDIT:

Also:

If you have 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (nobility and royalty), you get a +2 bonus on Diplomacy checks.

ALSO EDIT:

It's a freakin' Diplomacy check. Get over yourself.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I looked closer, and you're right. I stand corrected.... at least partially. It does say that the synergy bonuses for Bluff and Sense Motive stack, but I see no mention of Knowledge (Nobility) having a synergy bonus, much less it stacking with the other two.

That being said, though, I still wouldn't allow it in my game. Call it a house rule, but I still think synergy bonuses should not stack. Pick whichever one is most applicable, but only that one. I would allow a synergy bonus for Knowledge (Nobility) if the diplomacy check was for a negotiation with nobles since that does make sense, but I wouldn't let it stack with other synergies.

Actually, you just described how Synergy bonuses are meant to work. They don't always apply, especially with things like Knowledge. It really is up to the DM to determine when a Synergy bonus applies.

Either way, though, that exampl shows how easy it is to get high skill modifiers. Because of that(which I don't really think is a bad thing), I don't think its worth it to try to put a 'level' based on ranks or modifiers. Especially if you keep it low. You've got to expect a good amount of NPCs can be just like the PCs and easily get skill ranks over 20 while in mid levels.

 

[Knight Otu]

The Knowledge (nobility) bonus is part of the 3.5 rules, and in the 3.5 rules, synergy bonuses are actually unnamed bonuses.

 

[J_D]

The Knowledge (nobility) bonus is part of the 3.5 rules, and in the 3.5 rules, synergy bonuses are actually unnamed bonuses.

Thanks for the clarification. I'm reading from the 3.0 books. Unnamed bonuses, hmm? My own call (house rule if you like) is that synergy bonuses are named bonuses, and "synergy" is a type just like enhancement or circumstance. It's not a "rule as written", but then I've never claimed to be a strict adherer to the rules as written, so long as the house rules are specified in advance and not pulled out of the butt on the fly.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Let's just all agree to laugh hysterically* for five minutes and be done, OK?


*In someone's face or not, at your choice.

 

[Christopher Lambert]

And if a DM "hysterically laughed in my face" over such a thing, I'd say something to the effect of "Grow up," and point out that, RAW, they do stack.

So? DMs are allowed to ban rules that don't make sense.

It's a freakin' Diplomacy check. Get over yourself.

And does anyone know what reasonable DCs for Diplomacy are?

Synergy bonuses add little but confusion to the game. Who wants to memorize all those modifiers?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Chris:

There's a subtle but oft-missed difference between:

DM: I've been thinking, and I don't think that, in my campaign, all Synergy bonuses will always be applicable. I'll let you know on a case-by-case basis. Feel free to convince me which ones should apply on any given attempt.

---and---

DM: You want to apply WHAT bonus? Boy, you're a st00pid powergaming munchkin! Bwahahahahahahahahahah!

As far as memorizing modifiers goes, that only becomes important if the DM only lets you apply them situationally. Otherwise, a few minutes of prep time when your character goes up a level, and you've got it covered:

1. Did you increase any skill ranks this level? If yes,
2. Did you increase any skill ranks from less than 5 to 5 or higher this level? If yes,
3. Look up the skill in the PHB, and add +2 to the "Other" bonus column on your character sheet's skills section. Proceed to your next skill.

Not exactly rocket science here...

 

[Zoatebix]

And does anyone know what reasonable DCs for Diplomacy are?

Aren't all diplomacy DC's all laid out in the DMG under influencing attitudes?

Edit: My second point has already been discussed, so I deleted it.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Yep.

There's also an excellent set of house rules here:

http://www.giantitp.com/Func0010.html