Skill Point Experiment

Water Bob

Adventurer
Last game session, my players hit 3rd level. We hadn't had a chance to play in a while, and everyone was anxious to get on with it. We were at a pretty exciting part in the story.

I could tell that the players didn't want to start the game with bookkeeping, having to pre-think where they were going to put their skill points, so I suggested....

"Hey, why don't we just add points as we go. I'll keep track of how many you have. And, as the game goes on, and you want to spend points on something, you can do it. That way, you can, one, improve the skills you use in the game; two, get a bonus when you need it--when you're about to roll; and three, we don't have to mess with bookkeeping right now."

The players cheered.




So, that's what we're trying in my game. I've got a sheet in my GM's notebook. When a player wants to improve a skill, he lets me know, and I record the use.

Has anyone else done skill points this way? If so, what did you find to be the pros and cons?
 

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It can work really well, and it helps to keep the game moving more quickly during the level up process. Make sure you keep track of how many points they have and how many they can use, or someone is going to mess up their math.



[sblock=A related story, albeit tangential]I ran a child game a while back, where everyone started out as an 8 year old human. As they played, I kept track of what they were doing as individuals and as part of the group, and assigned stat points, skill points, and feats as they aged.

When they were age 13, two of them joined a mercenary outfit in order to help save their village from orcs - they became fighters. One went to the clergy to tend to the wounded, pray, and help fortify the town - she became a Paladin. The other two kids fell into a life of crime and deceit to try to save their families and then themselves - one became a bard after the conflict and one went rogue.

My players really enjoyed the game, having everything decided by me based on how they play, rather than deciding for themselves and trying to think ahead. It lead to some less than optimized characters, but they were very happy with the game. Enough to ask me to do it again, at least.
It was a lot of work, and maybe I'll do it that way again someday.[/sblock]
 
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a related story, albeit tangential]I ran a child game a while back, where everyone started out as an 8 year old human.

Your game sounds very familiar to me. My campaign is set during Conan's Hyborian Age. I've got two players--both of them are the same class: Barbarian. Cimmerians, like Conan. They're clansmen.

I started the game with the characters at 11 years old, when the clan begins training its warriors. I didn't assign stats, but instead, on the first game session, I had the players roll their stats (standard 4d6, drop lowest, assign to taste).

I allowed them a limited number of skills to choose from (although they could save skill points for when I opened up other skills later in the campaign).

Since we can't chose our given names, I actually named the characters. I told the players what their character names would be--and I allowed the players to have their characters deal with that however they wanted.

By the end of the second session, we had completed characters. I skipped a year between game sessions, steadily bringing the characters up to age.

I created plenty of action for the youngsters inside the village. There was a lot of NPC interaction and roleplaying. I threw a festival where the PCs competed for equipment (rare in this game world), and I governed physical obstacles like a race that tested the characters's physical skills. Plus, the players found their own intrigue--a role playing situation turned into a big fist fight among the young clansmen.

Then, when the players leasted expected it, they found their characters in some real trouble. This has turned into a several session wilderness adventure and dungeon crawl.

It's taken quite a while to play. And, the players have gained two levels so far--they're now 3rd level Barbarians.

I'm not sure the players realize it, seeing only the trees and not the forest the way I do as GM, but what they've just played through is the story of how their characters came to be recognized as warriors in the eyes of their clansmen.

My plan is to finish up this story (with lots of story hooks taking us to other adventures, of course) and then skip two or three years, advancing the characters' age to about 19-20 (they're 14-15-16 right now).

I think the next story will be about their first raid outside of Cimmeria. They'll leave for a season or more, fight some Picts, and return. It'll probably take them a year to a year and a half--maybe even two years--for the PCs to leave their clan territory in northern Cimmeria and reach the Pictish Wilderness.

It will be a neat little change of pace for them.

After that, I plan on returning to Cimmeria--but, who knows? The players may lead us in another direction.

Every so often, though, I'm going to advance the timeline, evenutally playing through these characters' entire lives.

What's really cool right now is that the characters both have strong backstories....because we actually played it!
 

Last game session, my players hit 3rd level. We hadn't had a chance to play in a while, and everyone was anxious to get on with it. We were at a pretty exciting part in the story.

I could tell that the players didn't want to start the game with bookkeeping, having to pre-think where they were going to put their skill points, so I suggested....

"Hey, why don't we just add points as we go. I'll keep track of how many you have. And, as the game goes on, and you want to spend points on something, you can do it. That way, you can, one, improve the skills you use in the game; two, get a bonus when you need it--when you're about to roll; and three, we don't have to mess with bookkeeping right now."

The players cheered.




So, that's what we're trying in my game. I've got a sheet in my GM's notebook. When a player wants to improve a skill, he lets me know, and I record the use.

Has anyone else done skill points this way? If so, what did you find to be the pros and cons?
Interesting. So, if I understand this right...
-They still gain the set amount of skillpoints per level, like normal.
-Same concept of max ranks = level +3 for class skills, half for cross class, etc...
-Instead of assigning those skill points into ranks in one shot, between games, on your character sheet, they bank those skillpoints, floating in limbo, and when a situation comes up where, lets say, it would be really nifty to have ranks in Climb, they deposit those skillpoints at that point?
-Once skillpoints get assigned in mid-game, those skillpoints stay invested in that skill? Like, I can't drop those 3 ranks in Climb, and then take them back later, right?


...If this is what you're suggesting, it sounds really good to me. This way players don't end up investing ranks in skills that might sound useful, but turn out to not actually end up being used once gameplay starts. I dig it.
 

-They still gain the set amount of skillpoints per level, like normal.
-Same concept of max ranks = level +3 for class skills, half for cross class, etc...

Yes, the game rules for assiging skill points stay the same. The only thing that changes is that the players assign those points during the game as it proceeds instead of all at one time.





-Instead of assigning those skill points into ranks in one shot, between games, on your character sheet, they bank those skillpoints, floating in limbo, and when a situation comes up where, lets say, it would be really nifty to have ranks in Climb, they deposit those skillpoints at that point?

Correct. Subject to the game rules, of course. If the character is 3rd level, and the character already has 5 ranks in Climb, he can only add one more rank. (Level +3 = max rank).



-Once skillpoints get assigned in mid-game, those skillpoints stay invested in that skill? Like, I can't drop those 3 ranks in Climb, and then take them back later, right?

That's right. All game rules remain as written.




This way players don't end up investing ranks in skills that might sound useful, but turn out to not actually end up being used once gameplay starts.


That's what I was thinking, too.
 


It should work fine as long as you aren't trying to reflect what they have been doing in the past with an increase in ranks.

My DM tells us to let him know what we are working on (that is what we hope to gain) when we gain levels. We need to have something to reflect the increase in ranks (practice, training, studying with some other character, etc.) and the same with feats. Classes levels are fine as long as you are increasing a level in a class you already have, when you want to pick up a level in a new class you need to have something in-game to help reflect that.

His way things aren't sudden and follow a story like more natural progression.
 

It should work fine as long as you aren't trying to reflect what they have been doing in the past with an increase in ranks.

My DM tells us to let him know what we are working on (that is what we hope to gain) when we gain levels. We need to have something to reflect the increase in ranks (practice, training, studying with some other character, etc.) and the same with feats. Classes levels are fine as long as you are increasing a level in a class you already have, when you want to pick up a level in a new class you need to have something in-game to help reflect that.

His way things aren't sudden and follow a story like more natural progression.
I've played a game that was heavy Roleplay that required this. I had level up ranks in skills that I actually used while adventuring or practiced in my spare time.
I personally did not like this approach, because it made it difficult to add ranks to new skills, especially add a lot of ranks into new skills in a single level. Leveling UMD was impossible.
However, I've written some D&D fiction that operated this way, and this works very well for literature.
 

My DM tells us to let him know what we are working on (that is what we hope to gain) when we gain levels. We need to have something to reflect the increase in ranks (practice, training, studying with some other character, etc.) and the same with feats. Classes levels are fine as long as you are increasing a level in a class you already have, when you want to pick up a level in a new class you need to have something in-game to help reflect that.

Though I'm not an ogre about it (or...maybe I am), I run the game pretty much as you say. Especially if we're talking about a cross class skill.

Let's say one of my Barbarians wanted to all of a sudden put points into Open Lock. I'd want them to find an old lock somewhere (hard in Cimmeria, where there really are no locks), carry it in his gear, and practice on it during down times and off-camera times.

I'm more strict about multi-classing. In the Conan RPG, it's extremely easy to multi-class per the mechanics. But, it's also got to make sense. I'm not going to allow one of my Barbarians to multi-class into a Barbarian/Pirate when I know the Barbarian has never set foot on a boat--much less a ship.

I'd be much more inclined to allow a Barbarian to multi-class as a Barbarian/Thief if the Barbarian starting stealing things and selling them outside of Cimmeria, say at an Aquilonian border town. Even then, I might restrict some skill purchases-like Open Lock, since Cimmerians don't use locks.

As long as things makes sense, I'm OK.

It's when a leap of faith is required that I start to say, "Now...wait a minute and please justify how you can do that..."
 

"Hey, why don't we just add points as we go. I'll keep track of how many you have. And, as the game goes on, and you want to spend points on something, you can do it. That way, you can, one, improve the skills you use in the game; two, get a bonus when you need it--when you're about to roll; and three, we don't have to mess with bookkeeping right now."

We never needed to do that with skills, but a few times I've allowed an inexperience/undecided player to delay some character choices when levelling up, such as new feats and spells.

I don't think there is any problem with that... I think the game still works even if you allow a player to delay ALL the level-up choices (i.e. granting immediately only non-choices such as BAB, ST, HP...). The player is effectively giving up some goodies for a while, so it doesn't bother me.

I wouldn't go as far as letting them choose the stuff when they're about to roll, it would feel a bit like cheating to me, but if you're fine with that too then go ahead...
 

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