The discussion of 5e skills has got me thinking, and has led me to three thoughts, listed here from general to specific.
1. The first thought is an observation: that more than before I am not thinking that a charisma character needs to max charisma skills -- whether it's due to bounded accuracy or something else, it seems like the benefit of taking skills in a weaker stat is actually pretty solid. Between proficiency and the possibility of advantage, low int characters trained in a lore skill can still hit reasonably high targets. That's a feature I've not noticed before.
2. It also shows the power of the rogue's expertise -- getting double proficiency rapidly becomes a huge bonus. So what should a rogue do? My sense is that he/she should focus on skills that will be opposed checks -- Insight, Deception, Persuasion, and (because of the grappling rules, if nothing else) Athletics. Now none of these are Dex-based, but if point 1 above is at all valid, ten it doesn't matter, even if Wis, Cha, and Str are n more than average. Again, strategically I think it makes sense for a rogue not to push Dex-skills, and that has the additional advantage of encouraging non-traditional rogue builds (which I find exciting anyways).
3. Has anyone really play tested the grappling rules yet? It's come up for us once or twice, but nothing concerted. In any case, it seems to me that a rogue (or bard?) taking expertise in Str (Athletics) rapidly becomes a a much more effective grappler (and resistor of grapples) than any fighter. I'm trying to imagine whether an aggressive-grappling strategy is at all effective (for a rogue, or others). The grappled condition doesn't give advantage, which is a shame and means you need a buddy nearby still (grappling would make that easier, of course).
Any thoughts appreciated.
1. The first thought is an observation: that more than before I am not thinking that a charisma character needs to max charisma skills -- whether it's due to bounded accuracy or something else, it seems like the benefit of taking skills in a weaker stat is actually pretty solid. Between proficiency and the possibility of advantage, low int characters trained in a lore skill can still hit reasonably high targets. That's a feature I've not noticed before.
2. It also shows the power of the rogue's expertise -- getting double proficiency rapidly becomes a huge bonus. So what should a rogue do? My sense is that he/she should focus on skills that will be opposed checks -- Insight, Deception, Persuasion, and (because of the grappling rules, if nothing else) Athletics. Now none of these are Dex-based, but if point 1 above is at all valid, ten it doesn't matter, even if Wis, Cha, and Str are n more than average. Again, strategically I think it makes sense for a rogue not to push Dex-skills, and that has the additional advantage of encouraging non-traditional rogue builds (which I find exciting anyways).
3. Has anyone really play tested the grappling rules yet? It's come up for us once or twice, but nothing concerted. In any case, it seems to me that a rogue (or bard?) taking expertise in Str (Athletics) rapidly becomes a a much more effective grappler (and resistor of grapples) than any fighter. I'm trying to imagine whether an aggressive-grappling strategy is at all effective (for a rogue, or others). The grappled condition doesn't give advantage, which is a shame and means you need a buddy nearby still (grappling would make that easier, of course).
Any thoughts appreciated.