Skill System?

[Angel Tarragon]

I'm not sure I fully comprehend the Pathfinder skill system as it stands for the Alpha 3 release.

Can someone please explain it to me in layman's terms? Many thanks.

 

[miscreationist]

I'll try to give it a shot. This is how I understand it.

Let's take a typical 1st level rogue with +2 Intelligence Modifier. According to Table 5-1 on page 53 of Alpha 3, the rogue gets 8 + 2 Skill Ranks to spend. On page 52 under "Acquiring Skills" it states that a character can only spend 1 rank in any skill because he has only 1HD. So the rogue can have 1 skill rank in any skill. A second level rogue could have 2 ranks in a skill because it has 2HD.

Skill checks are the same as 3.5 with the exception of class skills. Those skills that are class skills for the rogue will have a +3 modifier on skill checks. This is done to eliminate the x4 multiplier for skill ranks at first level in 3.5 and reflects the idea that many players put in the maximum number of ranks into a skill if they bothered to train in a class skill at all.

You may have noticed that here are no cross-class skills. You can't spend 1/2 a point like in 3.5, so those skills will be a bit better for a Pathfinder character vs. a 3.5 equivalent character.

One difference that you will notice is that you will have less ranks in your most used skills vs. a 3.5 character, so if an old prestige class has a certain rank requirement for the skill, it will need to be lessened by 3 for a Pathfinder PC and the total skill ranks needed for a character that does not have that skill as a class skill would need to be doubled in order to simulate cross-class skills in these requirements.

Additionally, many skills were consolidated into one skill. While I am not sure that I agree with all of the consolidated skills, keep in mind that a character in Pathfinder will have a wider variety of skills as opposed to a character under 3.5 who has equivalent skill training.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

You may have noticed that here are no cross-class skills. You can't spend 1/2 a point like in 3.5, so those skills will be a bit better for a Pathfinder character vs. a 3.5 equivalent character.

So if the player wants the character to have a rank in a skill that isn't a class skill, whats the process for it?

 

[GlassEye]

The cost for one rank in a skill, class skill or not, is one skill point. So if you want a rank in a skill that isn't a class skill you spend one skill point and receive one rank. The difference between class skills and non-class skills is the +3 bonus that class skills (with a minimum of one rank) receive. Add in ability modifiers and you are finished. Remember, there is no synergy in Pathfinder.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Remember, there is no synergy in Pathfinder.

Which is too bad, really. I know it's more complicated, but I always liked seeing where I could spend ranks to get synergies.

Of course I'm guessing that a lot of the old skill synergies got rolled into the same skill anyhow.

 

[Gailbraithe]

Which is too bad, really. I know it's more complicated, but I always liked seeing where I could spend ranks to get synergies.

Of course I'm guessing that a lot of the old skill synergies got rolled into the same skill anyhow.

Yeah, kind of hard for 5 ranks of Tumble to give a +2 to Leap when they're the same skill.

 

[ruemere]

Which is too bad, really. I know it's more complicated, but I always liked seeing where I could spend ranks to get synergies.

Of course I'm guessing that a lot of the old skill synergies got rolled into the same skill anyhow.

I beg to differ. The new system covers the following problems (some of them are related to synergies):

- presence of synergies added to system complexity,
- new skills had to contain class information and new synergies,
- through minmaxing one was able to skyrocket with skill total,
- when introducing playing in a radically different setting, designers had to worry about how the systems affect classes and synergies,
- no cross-class/class skills means one complicated table less,
- no cross-class/class skills allows for easier class descriptions and more varied skill builds for characters.

Of course, I am not familiar with latest version of skill system, but I'd like to say that I really liked its simplicity.

Regards,
Ruemere

 

[rushtong]

I beg to differ. The new system covers the following problems (some of them are related to synergies):

- presence of synergies added to system complexity,
- new skills had to contain class information and new synergies,
- through minmaxing one was able to skyrocket with skill total,
- when introducing playing in a radically different setting, designers had to worry about how the systems affect classes and synergies,
- no cross-class/class skills means one complicated table less,
- no cross-class/class skills allows for easier class descriptions and more varied skill builds for characters.

Of course, I am not familiar with latest version of skill system, but I'd like to say that I really liked its simplicity.

Regards,
Ruemere

Another benefit of the simplification comes into play when multi-classing. The simplified skill system is a breeze to sort through when you have multi-class PCs or NPCs above first level. 3.5 is a real pain to sort through what ranks were spent, half ranks or full ranks, at what level, and for which class. The new system removes that entire category of problems.

 

[Greg K]

I am not liking the new skill system. I like that skills are 1pt per rank. However, I dislike the limits on rank and, moreso, the +3 bonus to trained class skills and lack of x4 skill points at first level ( not everyone maxes out a handful of skills to the exclusion of everything else and many DMs will put characters that are so highly specialized into situations that highlight the consequences of such hyper specializion).

 

[radferth]

I like it, but, yes, if you liked taking 1 or 2 ranks in a bunch of skills at first level, you are out of luck in the new system.