Skill Tricks; good or bad?

[Gilladian]

I have a new player who has introduced me to "skill tricks". I don't own any of the splat books, so this was my first reading of them. Has anyone used them in a game?

Do they add much flavor, and are they balanced? Are there more tricks available in other books? Are there any classes/races where they become abusive?

I'm not against adding them to my game, but I want to know what to avoid or where to nerf problems early.

 

[green slime]

I dislike them intensely. They add another mechanic to the game which already has two seperate distinct mechanics to achieve this (skills on one hand, feats on the other), yet they just muddle things up, and create a logistical nightmare for little to no real benefit.

 

[Jack99]

Most of them work fine if you make them into feats. I really dont like the skill-trick system in itself.

 

[Brace Cormaeril]

Haven't used them. But I think they are neat and plan on using them in my next game. Note they can only be used once per encounter. They can be used to turn some tables at inopportune moments, I'm guessing, but I think that if the DM knows, "ok, once per encounter they are going to try and find an opportunity to pull a running jump of a 10' or higher wall, which will allow them to do touch attack on one opponent" or something, the it can be easily dealt with.
Could make for a cinematic moment. In my games, these things are always resolved with high DC skill checks... which players always whine are too high.

 

[Bacris]

I like the concept... not sure about the implementation - but I don't like just converting them to feats. Feats are something you get very few of in most situations - I've had very few DMs who grant more feats than standard RAW. Spending 2 skill points to get to do some sort of cinematic maneuver I'd be willing to pay - spending a feat for the same? Not so much - I'd rather spend a feat on something that I get a consistent benefit from.

 

[Shazman]

They are essentially a feat for the cost of 2 skill points. Most of them will benefit characters with lots of skill points and class skills more than those with few of both. If you think rogue types need a boost, or want fighters and spellcasters to ocassionally do more with their skills, then use them. If not, they are just and added layer of complexity that probably isn't necessary. You could just assign ad hoc DC's (they should be pretty high) for most of the stunts that skill tricks can accomplish. Skill tricks are only found in Complete Scoundrel.

 

[Gilladian]

Thanks everybody! Pretty much my reading of the situation - not a gamebreaker concept, and likely only the rogue will use, so no reason to refuse them - they'll come in rarely enough not to be a big issue. I'm not even sure HE has taken any, yet!

Again, thanks!

 

[Nonlethal Force]

It was was of the reasons I ended up not buying Complete Scoundrel.

Having said that, I should say that the decision was not a balance based one but a mechanics based one. Like others have said, it adds a whole mechanics to an already complex game. And in my opinion, it is a mechanic that isn't needed.

If you think skill-based characters are weak, give them something else that already exists in game. Adding another mechanic to support them isn't really going to make them stronger.

As for flavor, there were some that seemed neat. However, I didn't end up buying Bo9S because I didn't like how it seemed to make the game more hollywood cinematic with characters being able to do physical things that just shouldn't be possible without the use of magic. I got the same flavor feel from a bunch (but not all) of the skill tricks. I don't mind people be able to break the laws of physics with magic assistance, but when it comes to skills I do want a fair bit of realism in my game.

 

[Prophet2b]

I haven't had a player who used them, yet, but I think they look pretty cool. I actually don't think they're that complex at all, though. "Spend two skill points (just as though you were putting points into a cross-class skill), get a skill trick which works as (in essence) a lower powered feat." It's really that simple.

I actually am of the opinion that it benefits low-skill characters more than high. Sure, low-skill ones will lose two skill points - but high-skill characters can bump up skills so much they could possibly do all of these stunts eventually without a skill trick. Low-skill characters? Nah, they'll never get that good. But now they can do some cool, useful stuff with their skills that, previously, they probably wouldn't have dreamed of.

That said, I do think some of the skill tricks themselves are pretty... er... well... stupid. But others are cool, and I'd like to actually see them in play.

 

[Edheldur]

I liked the effects of some skill tricks, but disliked the implementation. So, I just converted them to normal skill uses, and so far so good.