Skills?

[BryonD]

To have every mage be competent at climbing, swimming and sneaking would get real old and real boring, real fast.

Not only is it a terrible jarring clash with the archetypes, but it also would make it standard fare and therefore unheroic and dull. Things that every PC can do are automatically no big deal.

 

[Shadeydm]

Would this spell extinction for the "skill monkey" rogue?

 

[Jim DelRosso]

To have every mage be competent at climbing, swimming and sneaking would get real old and real boring, real fast.

Not only is it a terrible jarring clash with the archetypes, but it also would make it standard fare and therefore unheroic and dull. Things that every PC can do are automatically no big deal.

I think you're overestimating the effect of having that +1/2 level to all skills; it doesn't turn every skill check into an autosuccess, it just reduces the number of skill checks that are autofail (or close enough to it as to make no difference). In other words, the mage won't be springing up that cliff like a Cimmerian, but he also won't force the whole party to wait because the only way he's getting up the cliff is by preparing a levitation spell.

 

[GravyFingerz]

You talk about characters having every skill as if it were a bad thing, Henry. Consider Conan, the 20th level Barbarian. He's seen things that would drive most men mad; he's been around the known world, fighting Lovecraftian horrors, and he's seen wizards and warlocks do some pretty crazy stuff with magic. He has a Spellcraft of +10.

Take your 1st level Wizard. He has a +10 Spellcraft (if he is focused), plus his Intelligence modifier. Now consider a conversation between the two, considering amiable circumstances.

"How do you know of a wall of force, you big dumb barbarian?"
"I've seen my friend Pelius cast such a spell before; it was also used against me by a dark wizard from Stygia. Nothing can penetrate it; it is immune to being breached."
"Yes, well ... I have read alot about it, and that seems to be the trick of it."

You see, level is the difference between knowledge and experience. Conan experienced it, and the wizard knows of it. It's all about interpretation of the character.

Like someone else in this thread said, Conan can't use the trained only functions of the skill. I assume every group has some downtime between adventures, allowing them to persue other skills of interest. It isn't too unrealistic to think that a 20th level character has picked up a little of everything; especially Conan, who has done a little of everything.

EDIT: Aww nuts, someone already posted an example similar to mine. I've been scooped!

 

[F4NBOY]

Torduk, the grumpy 10th level dwarf fighter(that never ever considered learning diplomacy, since it's not even a class skill for him) is as diplomatic as Gilberto, the 1st level noble paladin that trained all his life in diplomacy (he has the skill trainning in it).
Being a sucker is not always bad, it creates interesting roleplaying situation sometimes. If the wizard can't climb, he must find a creative solution for it. It's a challenge, and the game is about overcoming challenges. And solutions that are not in the book are funny too.
And whatever, I just think playing a grumpy dwarf is a lot of fun ,and I wanna be able to keep playing that.

 

[Glyfair]

I think Star Wars Saga Edition was cited as being something of a preview of the next edition of D&D, in a number of ways, skills (apparently) likely being one of them.

I'm not 100% sure it was skills being referenced. I think it might have been a general "Star Wars Saga Edition" was developed after 4E was being worked on, so some things in it came from 4E.

 

[BryonD]

I think you're overestimating the effect of having that +1/2 level to all skills; it doesn't turn every skill check into an autosuccess, it just reduces the number of skill checks that are autofail (or close enough to it as to make no difference). In other words, the mage won't be springing up that cliff like a Cimmerian, but he also won't force the whole party to wait because the only way he's getting up the cliff is by preparing a levitation spell.

No, you are just demanding extreme examples only and thus skewing the assessment.

No one said anything about spring up cliffs. But the idea that the assumption would be that a cliff won't make the party wait also means that the cliff is no longer a relavent item in the game.

 

[Jim DelRosso]

No, you are just demanding extreme examples only and thus skewing the assessment.

No one said anything about spring up cliffs. But the idea that the assumption would be that a cliff won't make the party wait also means that the cliff is no longer a relavent item in the game.

So, if the cliff doesn't definitely force the party to wait, it's not relevant to the game?

 

[BryonD]

So, if the cliff doesn't definitely force the party to wait, it's not relevant to the game?

Please, if you are going to throw around terms like omnicompetence and make definative statements like "won't force the party to wait" then you can't turn around and act like that isn't the point you made.

The way you stated it, and the way it would work in a pure SWSE port, would have a negative impact on the ability to create interesting challenges and would negate a lot of classic and fun parts of the game.

Fortunately, I've done a bt more digging now and I'm convinced that SWSE rules are at least in part specifically crafted for Star Wars flavor. So, it remains to be seen exactly what works out, but I can feel free to ignore your double standard nonsense for now.

 

[Jim DelRosso]

I can feel free to ignore your double standard nonsense for now.

Considering the quality of discourse you've offered here, I eagerly await being ignored.