D&D General Slaads are failures as exemplars of Chaotic NEUTRAL

Something native to Limbo and truly embodying Chaos would be constantly changing, and simply being in the same room as it would be extremely damaging to the sanity, at the very least, of any normal creature.

Thus it would be both futile and pointless to try to stat it.

Did you see my toon-like exemplars idea earlier? With the changable abilities and shapes? And somewhat open-ended advancement instead of specific advanced forms?
 

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What do you think their CRs should be? Obviously it would vary by HD, but I don't know what the appropriate CR would be at any particular number of HD. I'm terrible at figuring out stuff like that.

Also, any notes or critiques?
 

gyor

Legend
Why?

Honestly, I don't really care much about "exemplars" so that isn't the route I'm going anyways but I essentially cut out Limbo. It didn't do anything useful for me. So, why do we absoutely need a race native to Limbo? What does that give us that being native to somewhere else doesn't give us.

Because Limbo is part of the default Cosmology. I means it the whole point of this thread.
 

gyor

Legend
So long as PCs who encounter them have to make sanity checks...

The idea isn't represent lovecraftian horror, the Far Realms and even Slaads already do that.

The idea is more about randomness. So an Aura of Random Luck, that randomly adds or subtracts 1D4 from the rolls of anyone within the Aura. Shape-shifting, but staying in a single form for more then a day begins to get uncomfortable for them, and grows worse each day they don't shift into a new form. And when they cast spells and spell like abilities they roll on the Wild Surge chart like Wild Magic Sorcerers. And the highest CR ones grant wishes, but they are monkey paw like wishes, but with a more Chaotic then Evil twist. Each wish granted introduces increased entrophy into the universe.
 

gyor

Legend
Here's a rough draft. Some of the abilities are influenced by the chameleon and jester classes and the rules for posession


Living Caricatures (Toons)

Small outsider [Chaos] [Incorporeal (see text)]

Ability Scores: Toons get +6 to one ability score, which must be their highest, -4 to one ability score, which must be their lowest, and +2 to all other ability scores. The ability score increase thet get every 4 HD is 2 (1d3?) points rather than the sgandard +1 increase. Despite being incorporeal in their true form all toons have a strength score that is used for the bodies they create from the substance of Limbo

Skills: All skills are racial calss skills for a toon. They gain a +4 racial bonus to Perform (Comedy)

Body of Limbo: Toons are incorporeal but create bodies for themselves out of the substance of limbo. Due to these bodies each toon has a strength score despite ultimately being incorporeal. The body can be any shape, and if a new body is formed it does not have to be the same shape as the previous one. The bodies have 1d3 + Toon's Consitiution Modifier hitpoints per hd of the toon. The bodies have regeneration 3 when on Limbo. They are not subject to death from massive damage or to extra damage from critical hits or sneak attacks regardless of location. If the body is destroyed they can spawn another one in 2d2 minutes, but only if they are on limbo. The body uses the toon's ability scores, modified for size and shape. The body's size can be one size category larger or smaller than small per 4 HD of the toon. They can also take the form of an item rather than a creature. They gain a +10 bonus to disguise themselves as whatever they are taking the shape of

True Form: A toon's true form is incorporeal and amorphous and is immune to direct attack as long as their body exists. They are immune to flanking and critical hits in this form, have resistance 5 to all energy types except axiomatic energy (such as from things like an Order's Wrath spell) and DR 5/Cold Iron or Law. At 15 HD, their DR and resistances increase to 10.

Warp Limbo (ex): On the plane of Limbo, Living caricatures can warp the substance of the plane to produce various effects similar to spells
Continuous- HD dependent bonus on Balance, Climb, Craft, Disguise, Hide, Jump, Swim, and Tumble, and Use Magic Device checks (equal to 1/2 monster HD, plus 1/4 of character class HD)
At Will- Minor Creation
3/day- Cure Minor Wounds, Inflict Minor Wounds, Major Creation, xxIndisputabke Posession (MoE p.97)xx, Perinarch (Planar Handbook), Repair Minor Damage
1/day- ,Erase, Fabricate, Repair Light Damage

Aptitude Focus (Ex): Once per day, you can select one of five areas upon which to focus your ever-shifting talents. After meditating for 1 hour, you gain the chosen abilities for 24 hours or until you change your aptitude focus. The focus can be changed after being set once per day per every 6 monster HD or 12 class levels. If you change to the arcane focus or divine focus ability, you must still obey the normal rules for preparing spells (including any rest required).
*Arcane Focus: gain the ability to prepare and cast arcane spells, which may be chosen from the spell list of any arcane spellcasting class. You prepare and cast these spells just as a wizard does, including the use of a spellbook (potentially using stolen or borrowed spellbooks; see page 178 of the Player’s Handbook for details). Your spells per day are noted on Table 5–2: The Chameleon from Races of Destiny. gain bonus spells for a high Intelligence score, just as a wizard does. When Table 5–2 indicates that you get 0 spells per day of a given spell level, you gain only the bonus spells you would be entitled to based on your Intelligence score for that spell level. Your caster level is equal to twice your racial HD plus one times your number of class levels. You also gain a +2 competence bonus on Knowledge (arcana) checks and Spellcraft checks and a +2 bonus on Will saves; The bonus increases by +1 for every three monster HD and for every 6 character class levels
*Combat Focus: gain profciency with all martial weapons. You also gain a +2 competence bonus on attack rolls and weapon damage rolls and a +2 bonus on Fortitude saves. The bonus increases by +1 for every three monster HD and for every 6 character class levels
*Divine Focus: gain the ability to prepare and cast divine spells, which may be chosen from the spell list of any divine spellcasting class. You prepare and cast these spells just as a cleric does, except that you cannot spontaneously cast spells. You can only prepare new divine spells at sunrise. Your spells per day are noted on Table 5–2: The Chameleon from Races of Destiny. You gain bonus spells for a high Wisdom score, just as a cleric does. When Table 5–2 indicates that you get 0 spells per day of a given spell level, you gain only the bonus spells you would be entitled to based on your Wisdom score for that spell level. Your caster level is equal to twice your racial HD plus one times your number of class levels. You also gain a +2 competence bonus on Knowledge (religion) checks and a +2 bonus on Fortitude and Will saves. The bonus increases by +1 for every three monster HD and for every 6 character class levels.
*Stealth Focus: gain trapfnding (see page 50 of the Player’s Handbook), uncanny dodge (see page 26 of the Player’s Handbook), a +2 competence bonus on Disable Device, Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock, and Search checks, and a +2 bonus on Refex saves. The bonus increases by +1 for every three monster HD and for every 6 character class levels
*Wild Focus: gain wild empathy (see page 35 of the Player’s Handbook; treat your druid level as equal to your class level), woodland stride (see page 36 of the Player’s Handbook),a +2 competence bonus on Climb, Handle Animal, Jump, Knowledge (nature), and Survival checks, and a +2 bonus on Fortitude saves. The bonus increases by +1 for every three monster HD and for every 6 character class levels
*Enhancer: A toon in the form of an object can enhance it as if it were a magic item. The toon
can duplicate magic item powers worth up to 2,000 gp per Hit Die. The toon is in control of the powers it bestows upon the item. It can take them away as a free action at a moment’s notice if the creature using the item does not act in a manner that the toon wishes. A toon can only use this affinity whenmin item form, and cannot bestow this on other items. Despite the toon's’s duplication of magic item abilities, they do not gain a magic item;s aura. Detect magic will not sense an aura; detect chaos will, however. Smart characters might notice that the item behaves strangely or has an unusual appearance (a magic weapon that isn’t masterwork quality, for example, is a tipoff that something is awry). A character who succeeds at a Spot, Search, or Appraise check opposed by the Toon's disguise check notes that there is “something strange” about the item.
*Mimicry: Some toons have the ability to take on the caricatured form of specific powerful individuals. When in this form they may activate this affinities to gain all the special abilities (extraordinary, spell-like, supernatural, class based, spellcasting, etc) of the individual they are associated with, and their physical ability scores become those of the mimicked individual minus one. Their caster/manifester/initiator/class (etc) level for these special abilities is either their HD or the real individual's level minus two, whichever is lower. The save DCs for abilities gained in this manner are reduced by 2. All law-related abilities are changed to their chaoric equivalents. They cannot use this affinity to cast spells of a higher level than the original can cast, even if they have a better primary casting ability score than the real individual. They do gain any special bonus to disguise themself as their chosen individual beyond their normal bonuses.


Toonish Performance: The toon is the master of the verbal put down, the hilarious joke, or the savage verbal lashing. His words can inspire dread and outrage in his enemies or confidence and comfort in his friends.
Once per day per HD, the toon can use his wit to produce magical effects in those around him. Many of the effects rely on the use of Perform (Comedy) to establish their save DCs and other effects. Starting a toonish performance ability is a standard action, and the toon can maintain the performance (either as a free action or move action, depending on the specific performance used). The toon must keep up a steady stream of puns, insults, or jokes to maintain the performance's effect.
A deaf toon has a 20% failure chance when attempting to use his performance ability. If he fails, the attempt still counts against his daily number of toon's performances.
Fascinate (Sp): A toon can create a running stream of jokes, gags, and acrobatic stunts to cause one or more creatures to become fascinated with him. Each creature to be fascinated must be within 90 feet, able to see or hear the toon, and able to pay attention to him. The toon must also be able to see the creature. The distraction of a nearby combat or other dangers prevents the ability from working. For every three HD a toon attains beyond the 1st, they can target one additional creature with a single use of this ability. An affected creature gets to make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 toon's HD + toon's Cha modifier). If a creature succeeds at this saving throw the toon cannot attempt to fascinate that creature again for 24 hours. Creatures that fail this save sit quietly and listen to the toon's performance, taking no other actions for as long as the too continues to perform (up to a maximum of 1 round per HD of the toon). While fascinated, a target takes a -4 penalty on skill checks made as reactions, such as Listen and Spot checks. Any potential threat requires the toon to make another Perform (comedy) check and allows the creature a new saving throw against a DC equal to the new check result. Any obvious threat, such as someone drawing a weapon, casting a spell, or aiming at ranged weapon athe target, automatically breaks the effect. Fascinate is an enchantment (compulsion), mind-affecting ability.
Inspiring Quip (Su): A toon can boost his allies' morale with a joke that breaks their tension and invigorates their spirits, As an immediate action when an opponent misses an attack, the toon makes a wisecrack denigrating the foe's fighting ability. The toon must be able to see the unsuccessful attack. All allies within 30 feet of the toon gain a +2 morale bonus on all attacks against that foe for the rest of the encounter. The toon can use this ability more than once during an encounter to grant a morale bonus against multiple foes.
Taunt (Su): A toon can attempt to hurl such stinging insults and mockery against a foe that his opponent loses his temper in an explosive display. The toon targets one creature within 60 feet that shares a language with him or can see him. The target can make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 toon's HD + toon's Cha modifier). If he fails, the target gains a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls but takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class. On its next turn the affected target takes the most direct route possible (charging if able) toward the toon that avoids any obviously dangerous terrain, such as a pit of bubbling lava. The target may stop if an opponent blocks its path and can move around its foes in such a way as to avoid provoking attacks of opportunity (unless able to charge). If the target does provoke an attack of opportunity due to thismovement, it immediately gets to make another Will save, this time with a +2 bonus. The toon must use a free action to continue to taunt his opponent each round, and if he cannot complete this act the taunt's effects immediately end. This is a mind-affecting and language-dependant ability.
Calming Performance (Su): A toon with 6 or more HD can diffuse the tension, anger, and simmering violence in a confrontation. He can cause all creatures currently affected by his fascinate ability to adopt a friendly attitude toward himself his allies, and all other creatures currently affected by the jester'sfascinate ability. This effect lasts for 10 minutes per HD of the toon. Calming performance is a mind-affecting, language-dependent ability.
Buffoonery (Su): A toon with at least 9 HD can caper and dance to distract his opponents in battle. The toon's outrageous actions distract his foe, leaving it unable to effectively defend itself. The toon can choose a single target within 30 feet to whom he has line of sight. The target must be able to see and hear the toon and gets a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 toon's HD + toon's's Cha modifier). If the target misses this save, it loses its Dexterity bonus (if any) to its Armor Class. The target gains a new save each round the toon maintains buffoonery (a free action). If the target makes a successful Will save the effect ends and the target becomes immune to that particular toon's buffoonery for 24 hours.
Vicious Lampoon (Su): A toon with at least 12 HD can mock his opponents with such vicious, cutting humor that they lose confidence in their fighting ability. Every opponent within 60 feet of the toon who can hear and understand him must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 toon's HD + toon's Cha modifier). Creatures that fail this save suffer a -2 penalty on attack rolls, skill and ability checks, and saving throws for as long as the toon continues to perform (as a move action), up to a maximum number of rounds equal to the toon's HD. This is a mind-affecting, language-dependant effect.
Vexing Dialogue (Su): A toon with 15 HD or more can create a running series of jokes, observations, and insults that breaks a single target's ability to concentrate. When the toon uses this ability, his target must make a Concentration check opposed by the toon's Perform (comedy) check to cast a spell, use a supernatural ability, or otherwise perform an act that would require a Concentration check to complete if the target suffered damage while attempting it. This effect lasts for 1 round. The toon can use this ability against a given target once per encounter. This is a mind-affecting, language-dependent effect.
Scathing Wit (Su): A toon with 18 hd or more can leave his target a dispirited, demoralized shell with a few choice, cutting remarks. The target can make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2jester's level + toon's Cha modifier). If the save fails, the target suffers a penalty equal to the toon's Charisma bonus on attack rolls and saving throws. This penalty lasts for as long as the toon performs (a move action), for a maximum number of rounds equal to half the toon's HD. This is a mind-affecting, language-dependent effect. The target must be able to see and clearly hear the toon.


Spell-like abilities:
3/day - Protection from Law
1/day - Tasha's Hideous Laughter
Toons gain additional spell-like abilities as they gain HD. For every 2 racial HD or 4 class levels they gain an additional spell-like ability usable once per day. The level of the chosen spell must be less than one half of the toon's total HD

Mimicry- Some toons with at least 10 HD gain the special ability to turn into an on-point caricature of a specific individual that also has at least 10 HD and which must be within one size category of a size that the toon can change into. When in this form they may take on an affinity (see above) to gain all the special abilities (extraordinary, spell-like, supernatural, class based, spellcasting, etc) of the individual they are associated with, and their physical ability scores become those of the mimicked individual minus one. Their caster/manifester/initiator/class (etc) level for these special abilities is either their HD or the real individual's level minus two, whichever is lower. The save DCs for abilities gained in this manner are reduced by 2. All law-related abilities are changed to their chaoric equivalents. They cannot use this affinity to cast spells of a higher level than the original can cast, even if they have a better primary casting ability score than the real individual. They do gain any special bonus to disguise themself as their chosen individual beyond their normal bonuses.


Advancement: 3-30 hd and by character class (favored classes are Factotum, Jester, and Savant, plus any one other)

I like this.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
Because Limbo is part of the default Cosmology. I means it the whole point of this thread.

The point of the thread is actually that Slaad are bad representations of Chaotic Neutral.

So, holding up the Fey as an example of some good Chaotic races, including Neutral, seems appropriate.

And, bonus points, the Feywild is part of the default Cosmology too. So, it has the exact same standing as Limbo in this discussion. A place that exists in the default cosmology of the game and often has chaotic elements.
 


Chaosmancer

Legend
Its not an outer plane though; its not pary of the great wheel proper. It's what the ethereal sea and the plane of shadows are

So... Chaotic doesn't count unless you are in an outer plane and part of the "Great Wheel proper"?

Again, the only thing I did was hold up Fey as a good example of Chaotic. And then I was told they didn't live in Limbo so it didn't count.
 


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