SHARK
First Post
Greetings!
Slavery, Rape, Madness and War!
I have read several of the threads about the Book of Vile Darkness and so on, and a recurring theme seemed to arise from some members--these members would say something like "Well, I don't have slavery, or rape, or torture in my games! I have no interest in discussing such, and neither do my players!"
Now, from a theoretical point of view, or maybe it's philosophical--I haven't decided for sure yet
--but why would you *not* have such topics and themes in a campaign? I mean, if such doesn't exist in a campaign, what is then going on, you know?
For example, in my campaigns,
(1) Madness: Insane asylums can be found all over the place. People go nuts everywhere, and often they have very disturbing neurosis and pathologies. Some are horrendously, stark-raving mad! For the players to interact with these kinds of people, whether it is in a state-run asylum, or somewhere on a crowded street or tavern, these encounters can be quite disturbing. They deal with vile madnesses and grotesque neurosis that can manifest in people. Sometimes horrendous neurosis afflict NPC's close to the player characters, or a villain for example, or someone that the player characters need to interact with over an extended period of time for some reason. And so on.
(2) Rape: Rape is a constant thing in many parts of the world, and especially in kingdoms where slavery is legal. Wars breed this kind of thing as well, too. There may be friends of the characters, or relatives and so on that may have endured rape. It all depends on the situation really. There have been a few instances where player characters have been enslaved for weeks, months, or years in game time, and they were forced to endure being raped as well. In addition to being enslaved and horribly tortured. These things occur, and if the villains involved *didn't* engage in such, it would decidedly detract from the verrisimillitude of the campaign environment, and the character of the villains involved. In all such instances, such a horrific experience made a salient impact on the character, and enrished the overall story, and fueled the story in different story-arcs, whether it was for revenge, concealing such from relatives, dealing with children born from such an encounter, or just the character coming to grips with the experience as a whole. It also, interestingly, put a new face entirely on what *evil* really is. In the few cases where a character was raped, or they witnessed a favoured NPC being raped, they well knew the villain they faced was lower than pond scum, and was a sadistic, power-hungry monster who revelled in dominating his--or her!--victims. Needless to say, when such has occured, the players involved have been absolutely relentless in their pursuit of the villains in question!
(3) Slavery: As mentioned above, my campaigns are definitely not for a politically correct audience. Slavery exists, and is quite abundant in my campaigns. It is a vile, oppressive, horrifying practice, that many different elites of different societies use to enslave and enrich themselves at the expense of the masses of those in chains. Stories dealing with such themes have even brought tears to some of my players for example, as they helped free some elephant people from an evil human society. The elephant people were taken to open savannah land, and green forest, and helped to recover. More importantly from healing their physical wounds, the elephant people were *free* and were not shackled in chains and used as labour or as gladiators. They were so happy, and so grateful to the player-characters! It was really something. As noted, different characters, whether player-characters or NPC's, have, at different times, been enslaved, or somehow deeply involved with it. It has always been a great element of drama and tension throughout the stories.
(4) War: Well, war is constant throughout my campaigns as well. Millions of people march to war--tens of thousands of creatures pour into enemy lands, sweeping all before them in orgies of blood and fire as they devour people or enslave them to the yoke of the the oppressed. War is a hugely dramatic backdrop, and allows all kinds of stories to be told, froma variety of perspectives, too. In addition to the experience gained, the looting, the heroism, and listening to your enemies weep and beg for mercy! None the less, though, war--and its many ramifications, in a broad range of applications, are very dramatic and important to the campaign. Sometimes it gets quite bloody of course,when they are involved in hand-to-hand combat, and wading through great battles.
Of course, all of this is calibrated to the audience. If there are kids say under 15 playing, then there are certain aspects that are less detailed, simply because many children do not have the emotional maturity or the understanding to deal with more complex issues in a balanced, adult manner, like adults presumably can. Thus, there are elements that are *G* rated, as it were, and other elements, that have perhaps different ratings. Usually though, seeing that most of the people involved in the most of the campaigns are adults, more complex, adult themes and elements can be worked on and integrated into the stories.
For example: A player character has been enslaved and raped by a tyrant--an evil warlord who is determined to sweep the elves into the sea! However, such a preganancy in this situation, by circumstance of a druid's prophesy, is believed to give rise to a great hero who will have some essential role in bringing about the end of the tyrant's campaign of conquest. (That character being the child born in such circumstances) The rest of the group may travel and adventure for a number of years--at least 15 or 20 in game years, obviously, before such a prophesy could come into play--meanwhile provoking different tangents as the players seek to protect the young child from agents of the tyrant and so on, until different strands of such a story are brought to fruition. Meanwhile, the player-character's family or church may have some difficulties with a child being born not from a husband, or not from a selected husband through her choice or by arranged marriage, or whatever, depending on the culture and the religion involved. The player has then dealt creatively and dramatically with these different elements as they sought to raise their child, and at the same time protect their child from the agents of the tyrant and so on. At any rate, I would never expect a ten, twelve, or even a young teenager to necessarily have the skills or maturity to deal with such a subject matter--but adults can.
Jusrt some examples of what I mean though. I don't really understand how one cannot have such themes in a campaign, as it would seem to be almost cartoonish--unless you have lots of children playing, which as I mentioned, would be entirely appropriate. As for adults though, I suppose I don't understand what all the trembling and fear and apprehension there seems to be by some who are all *nervous* to ever include such topics in their campaigns, because they just don't know how their (adult) players would ever handle such themes. I guess I would ask, why would including such themes and elements in your campaign, played by adults, be such an apprehensive thing? It is a game after all, and a dramatic one at that, dealing with the violent, the bloody, the greedy, the horrific, almost all the time. Does that make any sense? I do hope so.
As an added thought, I am familiar with college drama classes and productions. Purely on an amatuer level, often just for fun--just like we play D&D--they gather and make productions that deal with exactly these kinds of themes and topics. It would seem that many adults can accept such discussion and dramatization of these mature themes in the venue of drama, played out on a school stage production, but somehow it is is unacceptable around one's table in a dramatic role-playing game?
At any rate,
How do some of you include such themes in your campaigns?
How have your players responded, and I suppose most interestingly, how have some of these kinds of themes and elements affected the characters, other relationships, and the larger campaign environment that the characters interact with?
NB: Please, no offense is meant, as I earlier tried to allude to the notion that this is primarily a philosophical line of questioning, and it isn't and shouldn't be interpreted as an attack upon anyone, or anyone's particular style of gaming. Thankyou for your consideration.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Slavery, Rape, Madness and War!
I have read several of the threads about the Book of Vile Darkness and so on, and a recurring theme seemed to arise from some members--these members would say something like "Well, I don't have slavery, or rape, or torture in my games! I have no interest in discussing such, and neither do my players!"
Now, from a theoretical point of view, or maybe it's philosophical--I haven't decided for sure yet
--but why would you *not* have such topics and themes in a campaign? I mean, if such doesn't exist in a campaign, what is then going on, you know?For example, in my campaigns,
(1) Madness: Insane asylums can be found all over the place. People go nuts everywhere, and often they have very disturbing neurosis and pathologies. Some are horrendously, stark-raving mad! For the players to interact with these kinds of people, whether it is in a state-run asylum, or somewhere on a crowded street or tavern, these encounters can be quite disturbing. They deal with vile madnesses and grotesque neurosis that can manifest in people. Sometimes horrendous neurosis afflict NPC's close to the player characters, or a villain for example, or someone that the player characters need to interact with over an extended period of time for some reason. And so on.
(2) Rape: Rape is a constant thing in many parts of the world, and especially in kingdoms where slavery is legal. Wars breed this kind of thing as well, too. There may be friends of the characters, or relatives and so on that may have endured rape. It all depends on the situation really. There have been a few instances where player characters have been enslaved for weeks, months, or years in game time, and they were forced to endure being raped as well. In addition to being enslaved and horribly tortured. These things occur, and if the villains involved *didn't* engage in such, it would decidedly detract from the verrisimillitude of the campaign environment, and the character of the villains involved. In all such instances, such a horrific experience made a salient impact on the character, and enrished the overall story, and fueled the story in different story-arcs, whether it was for revenge, concealing such from relatives, dealing with children born from such an encounter, or just the character coming to grips with the experience as a whole. It also, interestingly, put a new face entirely on what *evil* really is. In the few cases where a character was raped, or they witnessed a favoured NPC being raped, they well knew the villain they faced was lower than pond scum, and was a sadistic, power-hungry monster who revelled in dominating his--or her!--victims. Needless to say, when such has occured, the players involved have been absolutely relentless in their pursuit of the villains in question!
(3) Slavery: As mentioned above, my campaigns are definitely not for a politically correct audience.
Slavery exists, and is quite abundant in my campaigns. It is a vile, oppressive, horrifying practice, that many different elites of different societies use to enslave and enrich themselves at the expense of the masses of those in chains. Stories dealing with such themes have even brought tears to some of my players for example, as they helped free some elephant people from an evil human society. The elephant people were taken to open savannah land, and green forest, and helped to recover. More importantly from healing their physical wounds, the elephant people were *free* and were not shackled in chains and used as labour or as gladiators. They were so happy, and so grateful to the player-characters! It was really something. As noted, different characters, whether player-characters or NPC's, have, at different times, been enslaved, or somehow deeply involved with it. It has always been a great element of drama and tension throughout the stories.(4) War: Well, war is constant throughout my campaigns as well. Millions of people march to war--tens of thousands of creatures pour into enemy lands, sweeping all before them in orgies of blood and fire as they devour people or enslave them to the yoke of the the oppressed. War is a hugely dramatic backdrop, and allows all kinds of stories to be told, froma variety of perspectives, too.
In addition to the experience gained, the looting, the heroism, and listening to your enemies weep and beg for mercy! None the less, though, war--and its many ramifications, in a broad range of applications, are very dramatic and important to the campaign. Sometimes it gets quite bloody of course,when they are involved in hand-to-hand combat, and wading through great battles.Of course, all of this is calibrated to the audience. If there are kids say under 15 playing, then there are certain aspects that are less detailed, simply because many children do not have the emotional maturity or the understanding to deal with more complex issues in a balanced, adult manner, like adults presumably can. Thus, there are elements that are *G* rated, as it were, and other elements, that have perhaps different ratings. Usually though, seeing that most of the people involved in the most of the campaigns are adults, more complex, adult themes and elements can be worked on and integrated into the stories.
For example: A player character has been enslaved and raped by a tyrant--an evil warlord who is determined to sweep the elves into the sea! However, such a preganancy in this situation, by circumstance of a druid's prophesy, is believed to give rise to a great hero who will have some essential role in bringing about the end of the tyrant's campaign of conquest. (That character being the child born in such circumstances) The rest of the group may travel and adventure for a number of years--at least 15 or 20 in game years, obviously, before such a prophesy could come into play--meanwhile provoking different tangents as the players seek to protect the young child from agents of the tyrant and so on, until different strands of such a story are brought to fruition. Meanwhile, the player-character's family or church may have some difficulties with a child being born not from a husband, or not from a selected husband through her choice or by arranged marriage, or whatever, depending on the culture and the religion involved. The player has then dealt creatively and dramatically with these different elements as they sought to raise their child, and at the same time protect their child from the agents of the tyrant and so on. At any rate, I would never expect a ten, twelve, or even a young teenager to necessarily have the skills or maturity to deal with such a subject matter--but adults can.
Jusrt some examples of what I mean though. I don't really understand how one cannot have such themes in a campaign, as it would seem to be almost cartoonish--unless you have lots of children playing, which as I mentioned, would be entirely appropriate. As for adults though, I suppose I don't understand what all the trembling and fear and apprehension there seems to be by some who are all *nervous* to ever include such topics in their campaigns, because they just don't know how their (adult) players would ever handle such themes. I guess I would ask, why would including such themes and elements in your campaign, played by adults, be such an apprehensive thing? It is a game after all, and a dramatic one at that, dealing with the violent, the bloody, the greedy, the horrific, almost all the time. Does that make any sense? I do hope so.
As an added thought, I am familiar with college drama classes and productions. Purely on an amatuer level, often just for fun--just like we play D&D--they gather and make productions that deal with exactly these kinds of themes and topics. It would seem that many adults can accept such discussion and dramatization of these mature themes in the venue of drama, played out on a school stage production, but somehow it is is unacceptable around one's table in a dramatic role-playing game?
At any rate,
How do some of you include such themes in your campaigns?
How have your players responded, and I suppose most interestingly, how have some of these kinds of themes and elements affected the characters, other relationships, and the larger campaign environment that the characters interact with?
NB: Please, no offense is meant, as I earlier tried to allude to the notion that this is primarily a philosophical line of questioning, and it isn't and shouldn't be interpreted as an attack upon anyone, or anyone's particular style of gaming. Thankyou for your consideration.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
