Slavery, Rape, Madness and War!

[Henry]

This from the same company that said evil wizards copulate with Tarasques.

Um, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that just a very well-done troll on these boards?

Seriously, Dinkledog also brings up a point, and one that needs to be extended upon - that of the subject of rape, and your audience. A DM or group must also remember that, before bringing up the subject of rape in a game, that it is entirely possible that one of the players involved may have been a victim at some point - I don't remember the stats, but wasn't it something like one out of every 8 people in the United States has been raped or molested at some point in their past? Before dealing with the subject directly, it is always best to make sure that all participants in the campaign know what level of adult content is to be included. Mentioning rape in a background is a far cry from including it in a cut-scene, or even playing it out.

 

[sword-dancer]

Greetings!



Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

(1) Madness:

I´m not sure it counts but I´ve an campaign Idea of setting the party against golden dragon who is outright crazy wants to annihilate every human in his home region.
(I´m not sure if this include half humans)
The only question if he`s chaotic evil or not is if someone is mad/crazy to the core he´s truly responsible for his actions.
OTOH i think over a way to use the WFRP insanity rules for d&d.

(2) Rape:

No I didn`t and will never use ist.
Because you could never be really sure if some of your players had been raped or has some other experiences with it.

(3) Slavery:

Hadn`t use it IMC, but it`s nothing ruled out the possibilitie.

(4) War:

Rifts NGR i gmed, enough said. Another campaign in plannig, is set after a war against the dark forces lead by an evil elfpally.

Under number 2 you forgot the most common referense to rape, at least understood rape . . . half-orcs. Would have to say that a vast majority of these were not the products of love.

Yes Half orcs and maybe Halfhobgoblins may have a more rape descending than halvelves, elves are not so inclined to rape than the other participating partys.
And yes it means thart humans could and would...
OTOH it could also be a form of partnership, for every gender and every race.The alignment description in MM IMC gives only social tendencies, not something ingrained genetically, with the exception of genetacally(magical) created creatures or races.

 

[barsoomcore]

Anyone familiar with my campaign setting (which I realise includes absolutely nobody here, but bear with me) will be unsurprised to hear that Barsoom includes Madness, Slavery, Rape and War on a regular basis.

One of the more interesting cases is the madness of the devasted nation of Tianguo. After the Demon Goddess had ruled the country for a century she had depleted its population by more than 50% in her devouring hunger and endless craving to inflict pain and misery, not to mention her utter indifference to the famine and suffering of the people so long as her every whim was met. When she was at last driven away the catastrophic battle slew everyone in the capital city and bound their souls into a terrible black hurricane that swirls above the ruins of the city even to this day.

The horror of all this, coupled with the economic and human devastation of the land, has turned Tianguo into a country ruled by madness, revenge and terror. The whole country is now run by a group of secret societies sworn to the final destruction of the Demon Goddess (now on the run and without any powers besides). Literally the entire country is pathologically bent on avenging themselves upon the Demon Goddess, children brought up told that they are worthless pawns, doomed to destruction at her hands just like all their ancestors have been. Irrational and self-destructive they may be, but their wrath and their willingness to undergo any amount of torment in their quest is beginning to terrify their neighbors.

 

[shadow]

(begin rant)
I personally DON'T want slavery, rape, and madness in my campaign. Although realistically such things are very common, I don't see why a RPG campaign has to be realistic. I like playing in a high fantasy campaign world. The grittiness of the real world, doesn't need to come in and affect my campaign.
Second of all, altough these issues are very real issues in the real world, they are also very sensitive ones. For example rape is a horrible issue. I've heard it described as the ultimate crime against women. I personally know one woman who was the victim of sexual abuse. I therefore, really don't feel confortable with having rape in my game.
The same goes for the issue of "madness" (a term that I dislike because of its derogatory implications). Contrary to over a century of pulp stories, mental illness is no laughing matter. I've read that schizophrenia effects nearly 1-2% of the population of America to varying degrees. Neurosis like Obessive Compulsive Disorder(OCD), Generalized Anxiety Disorder, and Panic Disorder effect an even greater percentage of the population. I've always disliked the insanity rules for games like Call of Cthulhu and Ravenloft because they present a skewed view of mental illness. I've know a lot of people (including some close to me) suffer from different mental illnesses, and hence am often offended on how mental illness is trivialized and poked fun at in the media. Contrary to popular belief, schizophrenics are not likely to be homocidal maniacs. In fact most people suffering from schizophrenia (as well as other mental illnesses) are more likely to be a harm to themselves. Schizophrenics have an unusually high suicide rate. The perception of mental illness is changing with films like A Beautiful Mind, but most RPGs maintain the "homocidal maniac" stereotype.
(end rant)

 

[mmadsen]

I personally DON'T want slavery, rape, and madness in my campaign.

But you do want wholesale slaughter? Murder upon murder? Rampant butchery? I find it odd that villains and heroes can kill, kill, kill, but some of the staples of real-world conflict and fictional drama -- slavery, rape, madness, and war -- are unacceptable, even in the background. Is roleplaying in a Shakespearean campaign world that dreadful?

 

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Thanks Dinkeldog, Fennes, and Horacio! I'm glad that you like the thread!

It's good to see that many of you have developed such complex themes in your campaigns! Very interesting stuff! As noted, the development of such themes in a campaign can create very dramatic stories, and propel the group in directions and serve to motivate them in different ways beyond merely killing and looting faceless enemies.

Certainly, those people who are uncomfortable with such themes are welcome to feel as they do.

I tend to think that such exclusion of such themes can be limiting, but then again, I'm not uncomfortable with such themes.

In classical literature, from the Trojan War, to the Greek Tragedies, through the Arthurian stories, as well as theological literature such as that found in the Bible, such themes are literally everywhere, and serve to not only teach lessons about the nature of humanity, but also to make for more interesting and dramatic stories.

Characters that experience rape, slavery, or madness have a very personalized motivation and interpersonal involvement that few other themes can match. With villains, such themes serve to distinguish and crystalise them in the campaign, and in the eyes of the players. Imagine a villain that is stark raving mad, afflicted with Megolomania, and a host of other neurosis, standing in opposition to the player characters? Such a character can have bizarre motivations, and even change their goals and methodoligies on a whim, driven by insane whispers that gibber in their shattered minds!

War, of course, can serve as a vehicle for personal change and growth, as well as a process for cultural, economic, and political change. The player characters must deal with many ramifications of war, even beyond the scope that they are directly involved with. Politics and religion can further involve the player characters in many difficult decisions, and complex relationships that defy simple solutions.

As for realism in the game, as opposed to *high fanatsy*--well, personally, I think that I run a grim and brutal world, with elements of high fantasy throughout. In my view, stripping the game of such real world realities restricts the depth at which characters can grow and explore. There are so much more developments and themes that can enrich a campaign besides merely killing monsters and looting treasure. Indeed, that remains a component, but to absent or exclude other concepts can serve to make the game more like a comic book, and less like a dramatic novel. Comic books can be fun, of course, but there are so many elements that they never deal with, traditionally speaking. Many characters--even villains--never kill people, and they always have clear and simple motivations, and their interpersonal relationships can be simplistic. Those things, over time, can erode a campaigns verrisimillitude, and can also become quite predictable. None the less, that kind of game appeals to many people evidently, but it would seem to be limiting as time goes on.

It can indeed depend on what kind of players that you have gaming with you, as to what kind of themes and elements that you include in the campaign. I don't have any people that have been raped, so it isn't some kind of taboo subject. I have some players that are trained psychologists, so the themes of Madness is an interesting one for them to deal with in various capacities. War of course, is very dramatic, and gets my players very involved. Slavery, torture, and so on, are merely consequences and logical attitudes and behaviors from villains in the campaign. The player characters dealing with such must often confront their own emotions over such things, and often they can gain a very educational perspective from such dramatic experiences. They can use such as a dramatic vehicle to explore the reactions, morals, and motivations of their own characters involved in such circumstances.

At the end of the day, though, such themes allow for more dramatic, realistic stories to be explored in the game. Naturally, the capacity to separate fantasy from reality is essential to a balanced perspective. Fun must remain the chief goal though, and there can be a great deal of fun had in learning and growing as a player and as a character through diverse and dramatic circumstances.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[Agback]

Sounds interesting, but how would you play at proper insanity?

I did it once by playing a character who shared my own illness, and who, being in a fantasy campaign and therefore without suitable drugs, was even worse than I am. I can't say that this was much of a success: Great Bronze Gong's erratic behaviour was probably the reason why that campaign collapsed.

Anyway, you remind me that several RPGs I have played either put major insanities on 'goodies and bummers' tables in the character generation system or (like Call of Cthulhu) provide mechanisms for characters to become mad during play. I always thought that this was unsuitable: mania, major depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, paranoia, and other psychoses are in the first place very difficult to play at all well, in the second place make a character anything up to worse than useless, in the third place won't be much fun to the player, and in the fourth place won't be any fun for the other characters. There may be a place for players who want to take on the challenge of playing a character with a major insanity, but imposing anything of this sort on a player willy-nilly is not, IMHO, a good idea. YMMV. YDWYDWP.

Regards,


Agback

 

[Fenes 2]

(begin rant)
I personally DON'T want slavery, rape, and madness in my campaign. Although realistically such things are very common, I don't see why a RPG campaign has to be realistic. I like playing in a high fantasy campaign world. The grittiness of the real world, doesn't need to come in and affect my campaign.
Second of all, altough these issues are very real issues in the real world, they are also very sensitive ones.
(end rant)

Frankly, if I would omit everything that someone on this world had an issue with I could not play any RPG. I work at the court, so I have to deal with all sorts of crime, and also with mentally ill people hel against their will in an institution. I got some more or less detailed knowledge in history, so I know what has been done on this world, and what people are capable off. Does not keep me from joking about it. Does not keep me from using it in my game.

 

[Ulrick]

In my own Greyhawk Campaign, within the City of Pontylver the PCs encountered the spoiled Prince Damien Trieste that would go "hunting for women." He and his thugs would frequent bars and taverns and carry off barmaids for their own delights.

He attempted to do this while the PCs were around. They faced a dilemma: Save the girl and face a very powerful and danger enemy or leave things well enough alone and go about their business. They chose the first option. No only did they wind up slaying the Prince, the rogue ripped his gold tooth out. Overall, it came out to be great scene. It brought out the best in my players.

Now the PCs are stuck in Rel Astra, and Overking Ivid V has deemed the city traitorous. Drax the Invulnerable, lord of the city, must be captured. It is the beginning of the Greyhawk Wars. The Great Kingdom has awoken, its armies mobilized to strike its enemies.

While the PCs goals aren't really at all related to the war...Wars have this tendency to disrupt people's lives. While they were on a ship bound for Rel Astra, they were captured by the Rel Astran Navy to break the Imperial blockade in the city's harbor.


Essentially they became conscripted against their will...almost slaves, for if they tried to desert, the Rel Astran officers would try to kill them. Even these Imperial vessels had slaves at the oars. Their lives were brutal. When the ships sank, nobody unchained them from the oars.

The PCs felt bad about this, but there wasn't anything they could do but watch. So that's how they rationalized it. And they now know that the Rel Astrans aren't any better than the Great Kingdom. Both are wicked and decadent, through and through.

So now they’re in Rel Astra, and the city is besieged by a vast superior force. If the blockade hadn't lifted, the city would certainly have fallen.

While there, they’ve witnessed the best and worst in people. Some feel as though it is the end. So brothels and shops selling narcotics in the Plaza of Dark Delights are having good business. Others are getting even with old enemies before their time is up. Yet, there are people who lay down their lives so that their fellow citizens can live on, so that Rel Astra can survive. Most Rel Astrans are proud of their city, and unwilling to give it up to some insane “Fiend-Seeing Overking.”

I think adding mature themes depth to the game, as long as they’re handled maturely. I don’t throw in rape, sex, war, slavery, etc unless there’s a reason for it, such as adding something to the plot or atmosphere of a situation. However, there are lines of taste to be drawn. Such as I will never describe a rape scene.

I rate my games "R" to "NC-17." (With leaning toward the "R") And my players are comfortable with that.

One of my players made a remark regarding the BovD, “I don’t think you need that book. You run a pretty dark game as it is, and I’m having fun.”

But I’m gonna get the BovD anyway because it has cool spells.

Ulrick

 

[AngelTears]

About war, rape, and slavery.

A character I played was a bard & illusionist. She would go from one town to another. Now in one city she stops and does her thing, you know, her way on payingher way and making a bit of money on the side. Well the local ruler had with certain pressure from the church, started up his own mini-inquisition on destroying all magic users from the realm. Well she gets dragged in front of the ruler who likes how she looks and... well he rapes her, and the guards too. That night in the dawn before her executuon she is trying to recite a spell, which goes horribly wrong and a greater demon is summoned. The demon makes a faustian deal with her, he will kill the ruler for her unborn child. She agrees, and finds herself on the out skirts of the city. 9 months later the demon appears and takes her child from her.

Ever since then she has been looking for her child, Hope, whenever she can between adventures.

Slavery is something that is used in several games I have been as well as War. Not the kind involving flashing blades, but rather the kind where sieges have been long and ugly, with foot weary soldiers, tunneling under walls so that the walls would collapse and let the soldiers in.

I just had a great thought on running medievalish campaign set in the line of the war of the roses.

-Angel Tears