D&D 5E Sleep Spell 1st-Level, No-Save Death Spell?

[Joe Liker]

I just want to point out another misunderstanding present in the title of this thread: Falling asleep is not an automatic death sentence.

You still have to roll to hit an unconscious creature (but you do have advantage on the roll), and you do still have to deal enough damage to kill it (but attacks from 5 feet away or less are automatic crits if they do hit).

So they're probably as good as dead, but it's not guaranteed.

 

[keterys]

It's also pretty easily turned into a 1-round stun, as one creature not hit takes its action to wake up one, another wakes the next, and they just go in a line until all are awake, and the last one takes an action.

That said, it is perhaps disproportionately strong against a single higher hp enemy who has no one low hp near them. Like a 20 hp guarding a passage will get felled by it much of the time. Of course, that's a lot more swingy - roll slightly bad and it does nothing.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Sleep is very strong at low levels,but I believe monster HP increases at a higher rate than sleep HP scales. So still useful later,but single target and will need some beating on first.

Given the intent of this edition, it also remains strong against low-level foes while you're at higher levels. This could be particularly useful if the target(s) have high AC and low HP. Which is totally a thing that could happen in this edition!

 

[Scorpio616]

So, I guess I'm asking if there are limiting factors than I'm not aware of. Is there no coup de grace option in this edition, for instance, so you can't just lop of a sleeping foes head in one hit?

Correct, unfortunately. You can make an attack at advantage and deal them a Critical Hit if you hit.

Then if it was a PC who hit zero HP, next round you can try to hit them again with advantage, That hit counts as 2 of 3 death saves and it 'could' kill them outright if the crit deals them damage equal to thier maximum HP.

 

[Psikerlord#]

Correct, unfortunately. You can make an attack at advantage and deal them a Critical Hit if you hit.

Then if it was a PC who hit zero HP, next round you can try to hit them again with advantage, That hit counts as 2 of 3 death saves and it 'could' kill them outright if the crit deals them damage equal to thier maximum HP.

I generally rule while there is other combat going on, you cant just slit their throat or whatever, but you get a free crit. But if there are no other combatants, I treat the "combat" as ended, back in roleplaying mode, and let the party do whatever they like, including auto finish any magically slumbering foes without rolling any dice.

 

[Joddy37]

5d8 (average 22.5) seems to be strong. When you think of kobolds, goblins and orcs, yes it is. But when you begin to encounter tougher enemies that have around 12-16 hp, the spell quickly becomes ineffective, you need to wear down your foes first. I find this design beautiful because it doesn't ever make the spell obsolete against tough or even very high level foes, instead it makes you to carefully place your spell at the right time. Several monster types are immune to its effect. It is not overpowered in any way. My one concern is when this spell is used against spellcasters. A sleep with a 2nd level slot hits 31.5 hp. It can drop an 8th-level wizard with one shot. Spellcasting classes seem to be very vulnerable to this.

 

[Thank Dog]

Sleep is one of those spells that looks great on paper and yet doesn't really play that well at the table. Positioning it, getting the initiative to position it without hitting your comrades, and rolling high enough to affect more than a couple of targets, is problematic. I've had all of one situation come up where it was advantageous to cast it and I rolled average, dropping three creatures of six. Fantastic! Then on their round, they woke their buddies up...

On the whole, I actually don't think it's that great a spell. I'd take a bunch of other spells over it any day of the week.

 

[Dastion]

Simply allowing enemies that go on the same initiative to chain wake each other up is a bit if a jerk move. Odds are it wouldn't work out that way in a true initiative.

What I do is if an NPC wakes up an ally who normally goes on the same initiative as him I give him a Dexterity check with a DC of that group's init + 1. If he succeeds then he manages to act just before the ally he is waking up, thereby allowing that target to act. If that NPC also wakes someone up he makes the same check to see if he can act quickly enough (though I've considered increasing the DC by 1 each time).

I find that this is a good way to allow for the enemies realistically waking each other up while not completely gimping the sleep spell or over powering it. If the group of NPCs had a high init then (so my DC is harder) odds are the players really need the breathing room. If they had a low initiative then it gives me a chance to not one spell steamroll them. Worst case scenario the Wizard has managed to waste some of my actions and still leave some asleep.

 

[keterys]

Simply allowing enemies that go on the same initiative to chain wake each other up is a bit if a jerk move. Odds are it wouldn't work out that way in a true initiative.

What I do is allow a NPC who is awakened by an ally who shares an initiative with him a Dexterity check using their initiative as the DC. If they roll higher they can act.

Or you could just assign them an initiative order (at start of combat or as soon as the group is slept); then they could cheerfully go wake up the one with the highest initiative order, have it wake up the next, etc.

It is entirely possible for it to not work, of course - if the lowest init ones are the ones awake, but there's no need to handle it differently for NPCs as PCs. At least, I assume you'd have no problems with PCs waking each other up in one by one.

Just so we're clear, a no-save group stun is a _perfectly viable_ level 1 spell. Compare to Color Spray, with a tougher AE and worse effect (blind). There's no need to make the spell more effective.

 

[Joe Liker]

Simply allowing enemies that go on the same initiative to chain wake each other up is a bit if a jerk move. Odds are it wouldn't work out that way in a true initiative.

Ideally, you'd have a melee person or two moving to engage some of the enemies who remain awake, so if they want to go over and use their action to wake their friends up immediately, they'll have to eat an opportunity attack.

Note, I did say "ideally." Sometimes they'll be lucky enough to already be adjacent to their slumbering companions. Even so, it's a first-level spell, so I don't feel like making the bad guys lose an entire round of attacks is such a disappointment. It's certainly on par with color spray. Also, they're prone when they wake up, so you get the additional benefit of reducing their movement the following round.

No, letting the baddies wake each other up all at once isn't a jerk move. Somewhat unrealistic, perhaps, but not a jerk move against a first-level spell.