"sleeper" spells you didn't realize were so good

[Isida Kep'Tukari]

Create water actually ended up being an invisibility detector. for one of my characters Though I was a 12th level cleric, see invisibility was one of the spells that I didn't have prepared that day. By creating 24 gallons of water on the floor, centered on me, my allies and I were able to see the footprints of the invisible people around us.

 

[Pants]

The 3.5 quote you're looking for is:

Stacking Effects: Spells that provide bonuses or penalties on attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, and other attributes usually do not stack with themselves.

-Hyp.

Ah, many thanks.

 

[Felon]

Combo it with grease and you hold a person. Grease their weapon. If they drop it they must either a) pick it up and become held fast by the web, or b) ignore it for now and continue to trudge through the web to get at you.

Why would picking up the weapon render them "held fast" if they weren't previously? The only characters who actually become immobilized in a web are characters that are within the spells area of effect when it's cast and who then fail their Reflex save. Everyone else can move through by making Strength checks without fear of getting stuck.

But yes, web is darn handy for most of the reasons you mention, plus the fact that it grants cover and lasts a long time (10 min/level) but can dismissed at will.

Use silent image to obscure the sun's real location and make the image of a new sun where ever you want. Make people/groups/armies march in the wrong direction for hours.

This one's pretty much an invalid use of the spell. It isn't a portable hallucinatory terrain. You can only move the image within the limits of the size of the effect (four 10-ft. cubes + one 10-ft. cube/level). Also, the spell only creates "a figment of an object, creature, or force", so you couldn't effectively mask the sun, as figments cannot make something seem to be something else.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Less a spell than a combination: Summon Monster with Empower Spell. You can get LOADS of beasties! It'd never really occured to me that there are dice in there that can be affected.

When faced with a choice between 3-7 summon monster 1 creatures (from an empowered summon monster 3), or 2-5 summon monster 3 creatures, guess which I'll pick? The multi-summon ability of the SM spells is barely worth using as-is. Empowering it is just throwing good money after bad.

 

[apsuman]

Why would picking up the weapon render them "held fast" if they weren't previously? The only characters who actually become immobilized in a web are characters that are within the spells area of effect when it's cast and who then fail their Reflex save. Everyone else can move through by making Strength checks without fear of getting stuck.

my bad, perhaps (and perhaps not) in previous versons of the spell moving caused you to become entangled.

This one's pretty much an invalid use of the spell. It isn't a portable hallucinatory terrain. You can only move the image within the limits of the size of the effect (four 10-ft. cubes + one 10-ft. cube/level). Also, the spell only creates "a figment of an object, creature, or force", so you couldn't effectively mask the sun, as figments cannot make something seem to be something else.

You can use silent image (and all of it's higher level counterparts) to make something, say a pile of trash and characters could hide behind it. You are not changing the characters you are making an image of something. The fact that you are making the image to hide something behind it it in reality the reson the spell made this thread.

Hiding the sun behind a cloud should certainly be allowed by the spell. Since the cloud is silent and has no odor it is, imho, a perfect use of the spell. Forget the sun, you could make a new moon. Impress those villagers, make them flee.

 

[Staffan]

Forget the sun, you could make a new moon. Impress those villagers, make them flee.

Would be a pretty small and low-hanging moon, though.

 

[Stalker0]

I'm going with shatter. You can break weapons, doors, binding ropes, etc.

 

[Felon]

Since the cloud is silent and has no odor it is, imho, a perfect use of the spell. Forget the sun, you could make a new moon. Impress those villagers, make them flee.

You were initially laying out a situation where a large group of people were being misled for hours by the spell. I'll grant that the issue of concealing something like the sun with what would appear to be a low-flying cloud is a bit subjective (you certainly couldn't block all of the light cast by the sun, or the resulting direction of the shadows). However, the main reason it doesn't work is because once the spell is cast the figment can only move within a relatively small area of effect (a certain number of 10-foot cubes). So right there it's not traveling with you for any significant distance.

 

[blargney the second]

When faced with a choice between 3-7 summon monster 1 creatures (from an empowered summon monster 3), or 2-5 summon monster 3 creatures, guess which I'll pick? The multi-summon ability of the SM spells is barely worth using as-is. Empowering it is just throwing good money after bad.

You're absolutely right - I forgot to mention *what* an empowered summon is good for: trap detection!

-blarg

 

[ForceUser]

After DMing a clever person playing a conjurer, I can only gape at what he came up with for certain conjuration spells.

For unseen servant, he would conjure one before a fight and have it follow him holding scrolls and wands so he wouldn't have to dig into his bag.

Then there was the one-two punch of solid fog and [insert damaging cloud-type spell here]. I mean, ouch! Not only are you trapped (no save, SR doesn't apply, thanks for playing), but you are now taking damage or dying outright by whatever other cloud spell he lays on top of the solid fog! It's a really, really viscious combo and I was surprised to see a conjurer whose opposed school was evocation perform up to that level of carnage.