Sleeping and silenced rogue, ouch...

[marune]

Yesterday, the party was trying to get on the top of a hill to find a cairn. On the summit there was a nest of Griffons, 2 adults, 3 little offsring (that don't fight).

They studied them one day to learn that the male go to hunt just before the sun rise, and the female then after go for a little ride to. I have decided that they sleep at night.

The wizard cast Spider climb on the rogue, the cleric cast Silence and Invisibility on the rogue. The rogue climb, move to the nest, Coup de grace the first adult, done, wait for another round, Coup de grace the next.. job's done.

Only one thing could have saved them, their Scent abiliby, but.. when sleeping, do your Scent can wake up you ? I gived a chance for the second one to scent the rogue, but the die roll say no...

Did I forgot something or they just played well?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Sounds well-played, to me.

They probably all should have got scent checks to detect the rogue, but maybe with the same penalty as is applied to the Listen skill when sleeping.

Once the first one was dead, the smell of blood might have been strong enough to automatically waken the other.

However, it sounds like the players played pretty well.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Did I forgot something or they just played well?

The only think I can think of is that the first Coup de Grace would have broken the Invisibility. But the Silence combined with the fact that the griffons were sleeping would have probably meant a similar result.

The party had excellent reconnaissance, an excellent plan, and excellent execution. Sometimes it happens. I'm not sure I'd give the party full xp for the encounter, as all the circumstances were in the party's favor (just as I'd give more xp for an encounter where all the circumstances are against the party--such as an ambush by the bad guys.)

 

[dcollins]

Note: You're not supposed to give more or less XP for good or bad strategy on the PC's part.

DMG, Chapter on "Rewards":

Bad rolls or poor choices on the PCs' part should not modify ELs or XP. If the encounter is hard because the players were unlucky or careless, they don't get more experience.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Of course, that quote only says you shouldn't give more experience if the PCs screw up. It says nothing about awarding less because they did well.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Note: You're not supposed to give more or less XP for good or bad strategy on the PC's part.

I'm aware of this, but IMO this isn't a matter of strategy. It's a matter of EL. If the party comes across a sleeping dragon at 200' and the party archer kills it on one shot with an Arrow of Dragonslaying, that's not strategy. That's an encounter with a drastically lowered EL because they came across a dragon asleep in the open. If the situation is instead the party sleeping, and a dragon comes across them, detects them with its Blindsense, and opens up on them, that's an encounter with a drastically raised EL because a dragon came across them when many of their defenses were down and they were surprised.

This griffon encounter strikes me as the same. They came across griffons at extreme range. While flying around hunting (with eagle eyesight and an eagle's hunting range, I'd imagine,) the griffons apparently didn't spot them at all. Then the party waited until nightfall, cast all their buff spells, and slaughtered the griffons in 2 rounds. If that doesn't deserve a lowered EL, I don't know what does.

 

[cmanos]

yes and you are supposed to give characters full experience for avoiding a fight as well.

"What? There's an ancient Blue Dragon up in those hills? I think we need a beach party!"

Fight avoided. 10000xp rewarded for each player.

I think it is SILLY that players get full experience for bad choices. If characters talk their way thorough an obviously superior encounter instead of charging into combat, I give them more XP.

Sounds like the party had a good plan and pulled i toff well. I would have given the gryphons a scent check at -10 each round.

 

[Kurotowa]

I think you're only supposed to give experience if they avoid a fight while still accomplishing their goals. PCs can't just wander around the wilderness with Invisibility on and claim they gain XP from all the random encounters they walk away from. If the party is able to loot the dragon's hoard or steal a vital artifact from it while avoiding the sleeping dragon, that's worth XP.

I'm not sure how I feel about Pendragon's system. I understand the thought, that adversity builds more character than success alone does. I'm just not sure how well it works. Instead of rewarding clever tactics, it rewards holding back so that fights are harder. An XP hungry party would hold back on spells and use items so that a conflict is as difficult as possible without being life threatening.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I'm not sure how I feel about Pendragon's system. I understand the thought, that adversity builds more character than success alone does. I'm just not sure how well it works. Instead of rewarding clever tactics, it rewards holding back so that fights are harder. An XP hungry party would hold back on spells and use items so that a conflict is as difficult as possible without being life threatening.

I think perhaps I'm misrepresenting my "system."

I don't reduce xp for good tactics. I don't reduce xp if a combat goes easier than expected.

The last combat a ran--first in a new campaign--consisted of the 18 dex, Combat Reflexes fighter mowing down swarms of Tiny critters, since they provoked AoOs when they attacked. I hadn't anticipated the power of Combat Reflexes vs. Tiny critters, so the combat went much more easily than anticipated. I did not dock xp from it because of this, though. Nor would I dock xp from an encounter where the cleric easily destroyed a group of undead, or the wizard got lucky with a Disintegrate spell, etc. etc. I don't dock xp for excellent use of flanking, or Sundering, or disarming. I don't dock xp if the fighter gets lucky and scores a half-dozen critical hits.

But I do take a look at the initial setup of a combat, and adjust the EL for the situation. If the party is standing at the top of a 50' cliff and sees a Tyrannosaurus at the bottom, the EL for that encounter gets reduced. The T-Rex simply cannot respond to whatever the party does, and that makes the encounter far easier inherently, than a standard T-Rex encounter is meant to be to earn full xp.

And the scenario presented above, IMO, is not a standard EL griffon encounter.

 

[Corinthi]

I think you folks are reading too much into what Pendragon's saying.

EL, as I understand it, is a measure of how challenging an encounter should be. The Griffins never posed a credible threat, thus it could be argued that the party should receive less experience.

Personally, I disagree. The Griffins had a chance to awaken, and had they, the rogue would have been in a rather compromising position to say the least. The party had an excellent plan, executed it successfully, and should be rewarded for their cunning.

There's a world of difference between stumbling across a sleeping dragon, and spotting griffons flying about, finding their nest, and developing a plan for dealing with them without an extended melee.