W'rkncacnter
Hero
it explicitly says the dragon screams. that sounds like sound (albeit probably psychically infused sound, but still sound) to me.
Level Up (A5E) My 4 level 9 PCs took out the CR 17 Emerald Dragon!
jphinney
Explorer
As per the Emerald Dragon description, Emerald dragon's breath is both psychic energy and telekinetic force causing thunder damage. Yes screams, psychic scream.
W'rkncacnter
Hero
but it still screams. it's explicitly ear-splitting (as in, that's literally the term it uses in the description). one of the lair features relies on a "trick of acoustics". it's very clearly a sound-based monster. which is why i think turning around and saying "oh silence doesn't work because uh it's psychic energy and telekinetic force" just feels like a copout, and frankly unintended as well. i mean, if it were intended, why wouldn't it just say effects like silence don't work, or, even better, that it's psychic damage - you know, the damage type for psionic effects that the dragon already uses - and not thunder damage - you know, the damage type for sound? that's not even getting into how it simply says it's composed of psychic energy and telekinetic force - it says nothing about how that energy and force is delivered. the way the breath itself is described sounds very much like the sound delivers that energy, meaning removing the sound would also prevent the energy from traveling.
also i just realized your PFP uses the same art as a minor bad guy from my current 5e game. kinda funny, honestly.
W'rkncacnter
Hero
actually, wait, what the hell am i doing? who cares?
jphinney
Explorer
Lol very true
My dragon did!Lol very true
dave2008
Legend
Well I don't think you should have been that surprised. A group of (4) lvl 9 PCs should be able to take on a CR 20 monster (see below) with a reasonable chance of winning. So I am a bit surprised you assumed a CR 17 would be a TPK.
lichmaster
Hero
What's this table? It seems wrong (or at least not compliant with LU) in many aspects.
Also, normally 4 level 9 PCs have very little chance against a CR20 monster, barring extreme luck, surprise rounds and excellent preparation
In Level up, a CR 18 encounter is a hard challenge for 4 9th levels, and 20 is deadly. However, levelup also notes that "any challenge with a creature whose CR is 1.5 x the maximum character level is an impossible challenge"
So technically anything above CR 13 should hit that criteria. Now realistically, this dragon fits that bill (not to mention the artillery barrage). Their breath weapon could absolutely murder my entire party with a good roll (though with their resistances they could probably take one). So its not like the dragon wasn't a theoretical crazy high challenge. And had my invulnerability shield worked and knocked out the alpha strike, I think my players would have been toast.
I think it just shows once again how swingy the CR system can be, ESPECIALLY in the context of surprise round. surprise round is literally the most powerful advantage you can get in 5e, and so anytime that's an option the CR system kind of goes out the window.
I can respect the notion that people don't like silence taking out the dragon's breath weapon, but by the book it works. It did create some confusion when my other effects did work in the silence because they were "in your mind" whereas the breath technically was not.
But its also rule of cool. Thinking to use silence was a very smart idea by our party's cleric, and its not a spell that gets used very often by them (they don't abuse it or anything). So then telling them the thunder damage (which is a rare damage type) isn't "real thunder damage but mind thunder damage".... that's a bit much to me.
But its also rule of cool. Thinking to use silence was a very smart idea by our party's cleric, and its not a spell that gets used very often by them (they don't abuse it or anything). So then telling them the thunder damage (which is a rare damage type) isn't "real thunder damage but mind thunder damage".... that's a bit much to me.
