Slow is naaasty

[jodyjohnson]

The glossary entry really rubs me the wrong way still.

So far we have the following factors disallowing 5' steps (given the glossary not the specific descriptions):
Difficult terrain (Ice, dense rubble, undergrowth-heavy or light*, rocks, obstacles, snow/sleet/hail, natural stone floor, bog, climbing steep slope)
Blindness/Darkness
Climbing, Swimming without natural movement rate
plus
Exhaustion
Slow
Disabled
Entangled (not anchored)
Moving Silently normally (additional DC to avoid)
Hiding normally (additional DC to avoid)
Tumbling (additional DC to avoid)


Preventing Charge
Difficult terrain (as above) note Ice sheet costs 2/square but a Balance check allows a charge or running
Terrain which requires a balance check to charge or run (uneven flagstone, hewn stone floors)

*

Undergrowth: Vines, roots, and short bushes cover much of the ground in a forest. A space covered with light undergrowth costs 2 squares of movement to move into, and it provides concealment. Undergrowth increases the DC of Tumble and Move Silently checks by 2 because the leaves and branches get in the way. Heavy undergrowth costs 4 squares of movement to move into, and it provides concealment with a 30% miss chance (instead of the usual 20%). It increases the DC of Tumble and Move Silently checks by 5. Heavy undergrowth is easy to hide in, granting a +5 circumstance bonus on Hide checks. Running and charging are impossible. Squares with undergrowth are often clustered together. Undergrowth and trees aren’t mutually exclusive; it’s common for a 5-foot square to have both a tree and undergrowth.

Not a big deal until you get to Plains...

Undergrowth: Whether they’re crops or natural vegetation, the tall grasses of the plains function like light undergrowth in a forest. Particularly thick bushes form patches of heavy undergrowth that dot the landscape in grasslands.

So basically no 5' steps or charging in farm fields, forest, normal plains, most caves (natural stone floor), swamp, water, snow, ice, etc.

Charging on uneven flagstone and rough hewn stone requires a DC10 balance check to charge.

5' steps and charging are left to clear paths, roads, and well constructed floors.

These terrain descriptions actually mention no charging: light/heavy undergrowth, natural stone floors, ice sheet (if fail a Balance check).


Under the Poor visibility clause causing x2 movement my DM has added Fog as yet another option which prevents Charging and thus also the 5' step.


I wonder why they even put Charge and the 5' step in the game.

 

[Armadon63]

wait wait wait hold on here. If you slow someone then blind them do they really get screwed? like they can only take a 5 foot movement no matter what since a human moves 30 feet half of that is 15 then blind them do it 7 1/2 feet rounded down to 5 feet. Damn if that works it's time to mess some dudes up. oh man can you put those spells in a wand by chance? with the new duel wielding wands in complete arcane you can do all that in 1 round.

 

[beaver1024]

Actually slow isn't really that great. In fact it is probably one of the last spells I will prepare. Why is this? My reasoning is that a person has to fail a will save in order to be affected by slow. Now lets have a look at other effects that can happen if they fail a will save.

Glitterdust - Blinded. This effect is way better than slow.
Sleep/Deep Slumber - Helpless. Again way better than slow.
Hold Person - Helpless.
Hideous Laughter - Helpless.
Hypnotic Pattern and Hypnotism - Fascinated. Not that great but it allows the party to deal with 1 enemy at a time. Better than slow beacuse it completely disables rather than hamper.
Colour Spray - Stunned. This effect is actually better than slow because it takes away an action from the enemy and it allows sneak attacking rogues to sneak get in a few more high damage sneak attacks and it's lower level.

The only benefit I see in slow is that it is a non-mind affecting effect.

 

[Thanee]

Well Slow affects multiple selectable targets.

And I actually disagree about blind being worse... there are so many ways to circumvent blindness and be it a simple Blind-Fighting feat.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Shadowdweller]

And I actually disagree about blind being worse... there are so many ways to circumvent blindness and be it a simple Blind-Fighting feat.

Case by case thing. Slow is horrible if you're a melee-oriented fighter. Blindness is worse if you're a caster who can still cast spells as a partial action, but need line of sight to use your nasty targetted-spells.

 

[Pickaxe]

Actually slow isn't really that great. In fact it is probably one of the last spells I will prepare. Why is this? My reasoning is that a person has to fail a will save in order to be affected by slow. Now lets have a look at other effects that can happen if they fail a will save.

Glitterdust - Blinded. This effect is way better than slow.
Sleep/Deep Slumber - Helpless. Again way better than slow.
Hold Person - Helpless.
Hideous Laughter - Helpless.
Hypnotic Pattern and Hypnotism - Fascinated. Not that great but it allows the party to deal with 1 enemy at a time. Better than slow beacuse it completely disables rather than hamper.
Colour Spray - Stunned. This effect is actually better than slow because it takes away an action from the enemy and it allows sneak attacking rogues to sneak get in a few more high damage sneak attacks and it's lower level.

The only benefit I see in slow is that it is a non-mind affecting effect.

Sleep is limited by HD and can be ended by a standard action. Color Spray and Glitterdust have limited areas of effect. Hold Person affects one target, who gets a new save every round. Tasha's affects one target and grants a bonus to saves of any creature of a different type from you. Hypnotism and Hypnotic Pattern have durations that don't increase with level, and they are limited in terms of HD affected; HP requires concentration, and H grants a +2 save bonus to creatures in combat with you.

Thanee's point about multiple selectable targets is certainly the biggest advantage, but it also works on creatures who are sightless or can't see you, and, as a higher level spell, it has a higher save. (Of course, you could just Heighten the others, I suppose.) Also, don't forget that slowed creatures take penalties to attack, AC, and Reflex saves.

--Axe

 

[Scion]

slow also autokills any haste on the people you are fighting against.

I love the slow spell, it is actually a great 3rd level spell to prepare for all sorts of situations.

 

[Tellerve]

So basically no 5' steps or charging in farm fields, forest, normal plains, most caves (natural stone floor), swamp, water, snow, ice, etc.

Charging on uneven flagstone and rough hewn stone requires a DC10 balance check to charge.

5' steps and charging are left to clear paths, roads, and well constructed floors.

These terrain descriptions actually mention no charging: light/heavy undergrowth, natural stone floors, ice sheet (if fail a Balance check).


Under the Poor visibility clause causing x2 movement my DM has added Fog as yet another option which prevents Charging and thus also the 5' step.


I wonder why they even put Charge and the 5' step in the game.

I had to read this myself, and ya know, I'm a bit confused as well. I guess they really didn't want people charging. And although it spells out that they can't charge in light undergrowth I think they should at least allow that. They mention no charging or running in the paragraph with heavy undergrowth specifically. Now it is mentioned in the PHB about not charging when your square you're moving through would slow you down. And well, as you pointed out the plains areas, where we'd expect a lot of charging, you can't charge! Maybe they should have another descriptor that isn't light undergrowth and is no undergrowth. So that the grassy fields in a movie like Braveheart would be that and thusly able to be charged over, whereas a wheat field would be a light or heavy undergrowth and not able to be charged through.

*shurgs*

Tellerve

 

[Liquidsabre]

Agreed, slow is in the top 5 on my list of spell must-haves at 3rd level. The partial action coupled with reduced speed, multiple targets, will save...yeeaahh. Naastay!

 

[Brain]

I've got a 6th level sorcerer with slow as his only 3rd level spell. We do a lot of fighting in close quarters or cramped areas where some of the other 3rd level spells would have problems, but slow is great. The -1ac, -1 to hit, and -1 to reflex saves all have made the difference on close calls before as well.