Slow (the condition) seems weak

[Joshua Randall]

Slow (the condition that reduces your movement to 2) seems weak to me. Yet there are tons of powers that inflict Slow, and some classes seems to have Slowing as a major focus (Invoker, for example).

What do I not get about this?

Sure, occassionally you can Slow a melee monster at a distance, keeping him out of the battle for a round or two. But if you Slow a melee monster who's already in melee, it typically won't care (it will just attack the PC adjacent to it, which is what it would have done anyway, probably).

If you Slow a ranged monster, it really won't care. (Except in rare corner cases where it being Slowed means it can't move into range of you -- again, for a round or two.)

Thoughts?

 

[the Jester]

Slow a melee monster, then disengage and pelt it with missile fire.

Slow as a condition is much cooler if you rule that it imposes a flat 2-squares-per-round ceiling on (voluntary) movement, rather than just a speed of 2 (run or double move 4, or worse, move 2 and then charge- both of these take a lot of the 'fun' out of slowed.)

 

[Plane Sailing]

I think it largely depends on the reading of how 'slow' works.

If it is taken to mean "Your movement is limited to 2 no matter how many move actions you try, and whether you run or not. Anything other than teleportation and you don't move more than 2, buddy!" then it seems to be a fine power.

If it is taken to mean "your base move is reduced to 2, but you can move 2 each action, run to add extra movement, etc" then it seems very weak.

(I'm paraphrasing, but I hope you get the idea)

This was the general observation made a year or so ago when I first saw a lot of discussion on slow, and it seemed to hold up in practice from my admittedly limited observations.

Cheers

 

[Obryn]

It's situational, and especially depends on two things...

(1) Lots of space in which to maneuver, or else lots of difficult terrain;
(2) Strong tactics from the PCs. When a melee monster is slowed, the melee folks need to get away from them, if possible.

-O

 

[keterys]

I think I'd like to see 'and you cannot shift' added to slow - I think it'd make it work well for pinning down ranged characters, and making it more difficult for melee to maneuver for flank.

That said, the fighter's combat superiority would be too powerful with that interpretation likely. Part of me thinks that more indicates a problem with combat superiority, but meh.

 

[Cadfan]

Its not a strong condition. Powers that inflict it generally do a little more damage than powers that inflict better conditions.

That general rule isn't 100% true, and ranged powers that inflict Slow are sometimes weighted a little higher, I think. This is because Slow can be just as good as Stun when used at the right moment. I don't think there's any way to minimize just how great it is to Slow a melee only monster who's more than 4 spaces away from being able to attack. Its excellent action denial.

 

[Umbran]

Folks,

This is a Rules question, and should have been put in the 4e Rules forum. The database seems to be a little twitchy just now, so I cannot move the thread for you. But in the future, please put rules questions in Rules forums. Thanks.

 

[Shroomy]

Slow is pretty powerful against creatures whose main schtick is to charge or those whose damage increases when they move; I remember reading these kinds of complaints a few months ago, so I took the opportunity to create the comet tail eagle for my Dungeon adventure just to demonstrate that idea.

 

[Joshua Randall]

Slow as a condition is much cooler if you rule that it imposes a flat 2-squares-per-round ceiling

I think it largely depends on the reading of how 'slow' works.

Yes, absolutely. I mostly see it interpreted less strictly (i.e., you can still move/move or move/charge), so that is coloring my opinions.

Its not a strong condition. Powers that inflict it generally do a little more damage than powers that inflict better conditions.

That's interesting. I haven't gone to that level of analysis -- more going on a gut feeling.

This is a Rules question, and should have been put in the 4e Rules forum.

Hmm, really?

4e Rules Forum description: Ask questions about 4th-Edition rules and the like in here. General discussion about 4E or any other game belongs in General RPG Discussion, above.

I am not asking a question about how Slow works; I am asking about why it's useful. And I did actually think about this before choosing which forum to post in.

Slow is pretty powerful against creatures whose main schtick is to charge or those whose damage increases when they move

Well, yes, obviously. But that's like saying "removing a creature's sense of smell is pretty powerful against creatures whose main shtick is tracking you by scent". Of course slow is good against creatures that need to move.

But dazed is good against everything. It's not situational the way slowed is.

Maybe I just need to accept that slowed is not as good as some other condtions? But then what would I complain about?

 

[Dice4Hire]

Slowed is a weak condition, no matter how it is read, but it can be stronger if the 2 per round is applied.

I usually treat it as speed 2 in my games, and it has some very limited use.

Now if the maps for fights were larger in the AP......

But tiny map size is on of my peeves with the AP. (H123,P123,E123)