Slow (the condition) seems weak

[Destil]

Slow isn't that bad. Move + charge, even under the assumption that your speed is simply two (how I've always run it) is still limited to 4 squares and a basic attack. It's not uncommon in my games where it could least reduces a melee opponent's options for target selection. That said I don't think I've ever seen a player take/use a slowing power aside from a ray of frost from a wand.

I think I'd like to see 'and you cannot shift' added to slow - I think it'd make it work well for pinning down ranged characters, and making it more difficult for melee to maneuver for flank.

That said, the fighter's combat superiority would be too powerful with that interpretation likely. Part of me thinks that more indicates a problem with combat superiority, but meh.

That's pretty strong, really. I think my idea slow would be:

Your speed is two, any shift you make is halved (round up), and you take a -1 penalty to attacks when charging (instead of the +1 bonus).

Charging while slowed is just a proud nail to me, it shouldn't be easy/effective. Dropping the speed on some lurker that can shift 6 like a death jump spider without giving the fighter a free lunch would be a nice option.

 

[Mistwell]

Did WOTC every issue a ruling of any kind on how slow works?

One of my DMs ruled you can run and charge and such while under slow, which in my opinion made it next to useless. It was so situational, but the penalty to your attack was so high because the slow condition was added to it (it seems to be worth 1[W] to the WOTC authors), that it was almost always better to choose a different power in that game.

Particularly since most monsters seem to have their normal decent At-Will available as a basic melee attack, allowing a run and then charge essentially made slow an almost totally useless condition.

 

[The Little Raven]

I think it largely depends on the reading of how 'slow' works.

It says it makes your Speed 2. That seems pretty cut and dry to me.

If it is taken to mean "your base move is reduced to 2, but you can move 2 each action, run to add extra movement, etc" then it seems very weak.

So, you can double move for 4 squares, which is less than all PC races at full speed, and allows for pretty much no attacks in that round (not accounting for APs, special powers, etc).

Or you can run, suffer a -5 penalty to all attacks until the start of your next turn, grant combat advantage, and still only move 4 squares, less than your normal movement.

I've found Slow to be incredibly with players/DMs that actually use movement and positioning to good effect, because it restricts the options of melee combatants, as well as hampers the escape ability of ranged ones.

 

[Pbartender]

Charging while slowed is just a proud nail to me, it shouldn't be easy/effective. Dropping the speed on some lurker that can shift 6 like a death jump spider without giving the fighter a free lunch would be a nice option.

Actually, here's something interesting to note...

If you go with the usual book interpretation, that slow reduces the base Speed of the creature to two, then slow doesn't affect either a Deathjump Spider's Death From Above power or its Prodigious Leap power.

Each power specifies that the spider shifts a number of squares -- "shifting 6 squares" and "shifting 10 squares" respectively -- rather than referencing the Spider's Speed stat. So, Slowing the Spider wouldn't affect either of these abilities.

Contrast that with the Bulette's Earth Furrow power, which states, "moves up to its burrow speed", or the Stone Golem's Golem Rampage power, "moves up to its speed plus 2". Both of those powers would be affected.

 

[keterys]

There are _many_ creatures, and even a number of powers, whose attached movement should probably relate to speed but doesn't. Accordingly even when slowed you can end up flying 8 squares, shifting 4 squares, etc.

I consider it a flaw, personally. One easy to rectify on creatures as a DM, but trickier on powers potentially.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

There are two situations in which powers that inflict Slow is quite nasty. Against mobs of minions or largish groups, it is not so great. But when you have an Elite or Solo to deal with, the nastiness is easy enough to see.

The first is when you have a heavy hitting melee brute. If you can consistently inflict slow, (Ray of Frost), then the creature cannot really stay in melee range. This means that Wizards, Warlocks, Archer build Rangers, and anyone else with effective ranged at will powers will simply be able to grind the creature down without being touched.

The second is if there is an NPC in the battle that wants to escape. In battle there arent many ways to get the hell out od dodge aside from simple movement. But when you have a movement rate of 2, your not really going to get away at all.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[MarkB]

Slow on its own is merely a nuisance power. Slow combined with other effects such as damaging zones, difficult terrain, being knocked prone or Daze effects makes for nice synergies.

 

[Joshua Randall]

If you go with the usual book interpretation, that slow reduces the base Speed of the creature to two, then slow doesn't affect either a Deathjump Spider's Death From Above power or its Prodigious Leap power.

Yes, that sort of thing is a major flaw in Slow and the monster powers as written.

= = =

I certainly grok the uses for slow against single melee monsters, or would-be escapees. But I would still rather daze them.

Hmm, new thread: is daze too strong?

 

[Stalker0]

My group also believed the speed is 2 version (which I believe is the RAW interpretation of slow) was not strong enough.

We have changed it to 2 move total in the round, and it now has plenty of punch.

 

[Belphanior]

Some creatures have "shift 6 squares" as (part of) a power.
Some creatures have "shift up to your speed" as (part of) a power.
The difference is exactly where Slow comes into play.

And no, it's not a very strong condition. Which is why several at-wills have slow, as opposed to stun, daze, weaken or dominate. Slow is weak and yet works exactly as intended. It works quite well on many skirmishers though IME.