Smooth level progression

[cbatt]

Just the other day, I put my finger on just what exactly has been bothering me all this time about d20 based games. It's the concept of levels vs. the practice of levels.

I'll admit, levels are useful. They allow players to quickly determine the overall ability development (ie. "power level") of characters, which saves lots of time for the GM. In fact, they work really well for this... when the game is static.

However, as we all know, a game is not static. Things are always changing, especially characters. They gain experience through their actions (captain obvious to the rescue!) and they improve their abilities.

It is this point that I'm stuck on. Ability improvement only happens when a character gains a level. They get a batch of new abilities, all at once. One minute they have X abilities, the next minute they have X+4 abilities. It's a sort of disconnect for me, and for my group, one that we've found leads to a lot of metagaming about "levelling-up."

We've also noticed that we don't metagame the ability gain issue when we play games that do not use levels (eg. Shadowrun, HERO, etc...)

So (after all that blathering preamble) here's what I've come up with. It's nothing spectacular or earth shattering, and I garauntee someone has done this before, but I haven't seen it and think that others may find it useful.

1. Players determine which class their PC is gaining their next level in.

2. Then they count up how many "abilities" the next level in their chosen class will bring (eg. Attack Bonus, Save Bonuses (all saves treated as one ability), Feat, Bonus Feat = 4 new abilities)

3. Divide the amount of experience it takes to gain the next level by the number of abilities (eg. 3000 exp/4 abilities = 750 exp/ability)

4. So, every 750 exps that the PC earns, the player chooses one of the abilitites determined in Step 2.

Voila! Simulated free-form character development in a class/level based game.

The disadvantage this has, of course, is that it reduces the effectiveness of levels as indicators of absolute character development. Might throw the CR/EL thing out of whack as well, but that systems wacky enough to begin with.

Whatever whatever. As I said above, nothing spectacular, but it's here if you want it. I like a lot, but haven't actually used it in play. I'm just curious about what anyone else thinks of this.

 

[Mr Fidgit]

hey cbatt!

don't you think that players (from the most well-meaning to the biggest min/maxers) will automatically choose their most 'powerful' abilities first?

i would think any spellcaster would choose to gain their spellcasting abilities first, fighters would choose their feats, and so on, way before they'd choose to increase their saves

 

[Jeph]

Cbatt: me like!

Mr. Fidgit: Is that really a problem? It doesn't seem that big of an issue to me. It is just a little quirk, but doesn't actually effect the overall scheme of things in a major way. You could say the same thing of gaining feats: But won't all the characters, from the most well-meaning to the worst min-maxers, choose the best feats first? The answer, of course, is yes, and is a vital part of designing an effective character (that, and, reading the SoS thread. ).

 

[Mr Fidgit]

i think it would affect things in a major way. just as an example: let's say a 1st level fighter is created as per the PH. to go to level 2, the fighter gains 3 'abilities' (and just for the sake of arguement, hps and skills are only gained at each level). so, the fighter has 1) +1 BAB, 2) +1 Fort save and 3) a bonus fighter feat. 3 abilities divided by the number of exp needed to go to second level (1000) is 333 points (or thereabouts).

so when the fighter gets to 333 experience points, which 'ability' does he choose? probably the feat. then at 666 points, he gains the +1 BAB, and at 1000 pts the +1 Fort save, and the hit points and skill points

if hit points and skill points were added to the 'abilities', hit points would definately be first for the fighter and the skills most likely last (although skill points (synergies) vs evasion may be a tough choice for a rogue, but what sorcerer at any level wouldn't choose 'spells known' first?)

i don't mean this to be inflamatory, just to point out how a system like this could be abused


and what is this SoS thread you speak of?

 

[Jeph]

Basically, what I was trying to say, is of course they'l choose the best abilities first, it would be the obvius and wise thing to do. It might make a few challenges a bit easier to overcome, but CR and ECL are just odd anyway.

Sultans of Smack, btw.

 

[cbatt]

Thanks for the feedback.

Personally, I don't care if the PCs take the best abilities all the time. Because, truth is, the best abilities in an in-progress game are not always the best abilities on paper. Just because the HPs or the bonus feats are generally superior doesn't mean that they always are.

Maybe a player will figure that they need the bonus skill points *right now* to overcome a non-combat challenge that they previously avoided. Not to mention that they still need to acquire the "less powerful" abilities in order to level up and start the process again.

I can understand that some people would have reservations with this thinking though.

 

[Oni]

I had actually tried to this in a limited way with 2nd ed. I had broken the Wizards spellcasting table down so that the spell slots where gained one at a time, sortal like mini-levels. It's always bothered me the way that spellcasters don't improve gradually but take fairly drastic jumps in the number of spells they can cast at sporadic intervals.

 

[Mr Fidgit]

did it work well, Oni? or not?

would you consider using cbatt's system now, in a 3e game?

(yeah, i'm curious...)

 

[Oni]

Don't know, I never got to try it out and I have since lost those notes .

 

[dvvega]

The system you describe I actually posted on the Usenet roleplaying boards.

The sytem I described also included BAB, and Save bonuses so it spread the XP out even further.