Hello! My name is Troy McClure. You may remember me from such scintillating dives into the rules of AD&D as Item Saving Throws: How Evil DMs Make Volume Calculations Work For Them and Against PCs and Shocks the Conscience: Gygax's War Against Haste. I'm here to give you the skinny on the some of the rules for 5e24: I Still Know What You Played Last Summer as part of my plea bargain with the good folks of Dairy Queen- remember, Blizzards are only to be administered orally! But I am obligated by the Court to post something related to the last four decades.
Which is why I thought I'd share some research I did a while ago about the changes in D&D between 5e and 5e: 10 Years Later. Now, I know that many of you are laughing at this statement because there seems to be almost no difference.
And that's how DAIRY QUEEN GETS YOU! Really, how was Troy McClure to know that there is a difference between the Blizzards they have for sale and the completely and totally legal and not-narcotic suppositories that are legally prescribed?
More important, there are differences, and I thought I would provide the following guide to illustrate the main differences that I have seen to allow people to easily transition to a new and glorious set of rules, while also enjoying a soft serve from Dairy Queen. In the mouth. As intended. Today's topics? Fighting with two weapons, and grappling!
Refresher on the action economy:
In 5e24, your character takes a turn. During the turn, you take an "action." You only take ONE ACTION on a turn Actions are things like "attack," "attack," "attack," and "attack." If you're playing some sort of hippie game, you might also use other things like dodge, or dash, or help, or magic (cast a spell), or dash, or one of a few others (I'm looking at you, study).
In addition, certain abilities and events can trigger a BONUS ACTION or a REACTION. You only get one BONUS ACTION and one REACTION - even if you have multiple triggers or abilities that would use them.
You also usually get to move, if you're into that.
A. Fighting with two weapons.
Let's start with the good news. Fighting with two weapons is better, for the most part, than it was. However, it is also very easy to misunderstand if you are not paying attention. So allow me to break this down into the most simple components.
1. You can wield two weapons all you want, but you don't get to attack with the extra weapon during your turn unless you are able to for some reason. So let's start with that basic premise- you can always "use" two weapons (so long as they don't have the two-handed property), but while that makes for a great photo, people want to be able to get mas attacks by forsaking holding a shield, spell components, a two-handed weapon, or using their free hand to flip the bird to the enemy.
Ex. Chad is holding a mace in one hand, and a morningstar in the other hand, because he thinks it looks cool. When Chad takes the attack action, he gets one attack (either the mace or morningstar, because off-handedness isn't a thing).
Chad gets one attack, and has a bonus action remaining.
2. If both the weapons you are wielding are light weapons, then you get to use your bonus action. This is a property of light weapons.
Ex. Chad is wielding two scimitars. Both scimitars have the weapon property light. So if Chad attacks, Chad gets to make one attack (with the attack action) and one extra attack (with the bonus action).
What does this mean- if you use up your bonus action, you get two attacks.
Chad gets two attacks if he uses his bonus action.
3. If you have weapon mastery, and one of the two light weapons you are wielding has the nick property, you can move the bonus attack granted by the light property into your attack action.
Ex. Chad has weapon mastery for the scimitar from his class. Chad is wielding two scimitars. Scimitars are light and nick. So if Chad attacks, Chad gets to make two attacks (with the attack action) and now keeps the "bonus action" free for a different use. However, Chad cannot use the bonus action to attack again, because the bonus action from the light property was transferred into the attack action.
Chad gets two attacks, and keeps his bonus action, but the bonus action cannot be used for a TWF attack using the light/Nick property.
Let's throw in one small thing- fighting feats. Those "off-hand" attacks you are getting with your extra weapon? You don't get to add your ability modifier to the damage. So in (1) and (2) above? If Chad's main weapon attack would do 1d6+3 (16 in relevant score), the second attack would do 1d6. Unless Chad takes two-weapon fighting (the fighting feat), in which case all of Chad's attacks get to add the ability modifier, so Chad always does 1d6+3.
If you understand all of this, you're doing great. Basically- you can't get more than two attacks until level 4. And then the first major complication comes in! Because you can choose to take a level 4 feat.
4. If you have dual wielder feat, you can make an additional attack as a bonus action when wielding two weapons. It also has rules for drawing/stowing and using a non-light weapon for the bonus attack, but that will get overly complicated right now.
Ex. Chad takes dual-wielder at fourth level, at takes the dual wielder feat. He continue to use two scimitars (simplicity!). Chad now gets to attack twice on his attack action (nick, light) and can use his bonus action to attack a third time.
Chad gets three attacks, but uses his bonus action.
5. If you get extra attacks, those are additive, but you don't get to re-add all the other two-weapon properties. In other words, when your class feature gives you an extra attack, you get 1 extra attack. Not at extra attack action.
Ex. Chad has now hit fifth level as a fighter, and he gets an extra attack. That means he gets a second attack when he takes the attack action. So Chad gets two attacks (Fighter 5) + 1 attack (nick) in his attack, and can use his bonus action to get an additional attack.
Chad gets four attacks if he uses his bonus action.
Please note that there are further variations out there (throwing light weapon, using a non-light weapon for the bonus attack with dual wielder with the stow/use, etc.) but IMO if you understand the five points above, you can extrapolate to all scenarios. Remember the following when it comes to dual wielding-
a. Be careful with the action economy. Almost every single good dual wielding scenario (all the ones past the light/nick combo) will eat up bonus actions. YOU ONLY GET ONE.
b. Be wary of anyone trying to sell you on a ludicrous number of attacks.
c. If you don't have the fighting feat (two weapon fighting) those extra attacks won't have your ability modifiers on 'em.
B. Grappling
I'll be brief, because the rules are clear. There are a few big changes in the rules of grappling to 5e24 that many of us overlooked. Here's the quick overview-
In 5e24, you can make an "unarmed strike" as part of your attack. There are no weapon masteries or properties for an unarmed strike. Here's a handy flowchart-
1. You declare an unarmed strike action.
2. When you declare an unarmed strike action, you have the option of a) damage, b) shove, or c) grapple.
3. If you choose damage, you make an attack roll against the target.
4. If you choose grapple (or shove)... there is no attack roll. Instead, the target must make a save (either Strength or Dexterity, and the target chooses). The DC for the target's save is 8+your strength modifier+ your proficiency modifier.
So Chad wants to grapple Weezerus, God of the Hash Pipe. Chad declares that he will grapple Weezerus, and then .... that's it. The next thing that happens is that Weezerus chooses whether to make it a strength of dexterity save, with a DC set by the formula above. If Chad is 4th level with a 14 strength, the DC is (8+2+2) 12. But Chad cannot benefit from advantage or a weapon mastery or from anything other than buffing his strength. Grapple is part of an attack action, but it is not an attack roll.
But wait, there's more- and there's a reason that I am putting this along with the two weapon fighting. Unarmed strikes that are for damage can be made a number of ways- for example, by a headbutt. But grappling? Grappling always requires a free hand- both to initiate the grapple, and to maintain it. Absent other abilities, you only get one free weapon interaction per attack. In an attack action, you're allowed to either equip or unequip one weapon during your attack action (absent other abilities). But not as part of a bonus action. (Dual wielder feat lets you do two weapons per attack action). The reason I mention this is because of the requirement that a grappler must have a free hand (no weapons wielded, let alone shield, spell components, etc.) when a grapple is attempted, and must keep that hand free in order to maintain the grapple.
This isn't meant to be an exhaustive guide to grappling- obviously, we have class abilities that change things (such as the Monk's shifting of grappling from strength-based to dex-based). But I wanted to go over the basic rules because I was looking into it, and I've seen a lot of confusion between 5e14 and 5e24 grappling, and even when there isn't that confusion, a lot of misunderstanding of how the action economy and the free-hand requirement plays into grappling.
Anyway, I expect that there will be two reactions to this. Some of you will look at it and go, "Duh. Those are the rules. What's the point of this?" Some might say, "Wait, those aren't the rules, and I need to explain why they aren't!" But I hope that this will prove helpful to someone else out there and save them from cross-referencing different rules in 5e24.
Which is why I thought I'd share some research I did a while ago about the changes in D&D between 5e and 5e: 10 Years Later. Now, I know that many of you are laughing at this statement because there seems to be almost no difference.
And that's how DAIRY QUEEN GETS YOU! Really, how was Troy McClure to know that there is a difference between the Blizzards they have for sale and the completely and totally legal and not-narcotic suppositories that are legally prescribed?
More important, there are differences, and I thought I would provide the following guide to illustrate the main differences that I have seen to allow people to easily transition to a new and glorious set of rules, while also enjoying a soft serve from Dairy Queen. In the mouth. As intended. Today's topics? Fighting with two weapons, and grappling!
Refresher on the action economy:
In 5e24, your character takes a turn. During the turn, you take an "action." You only take ONE ACTION on a turn Actions are things like "attack," "attack," "attack," and "attack." If you're playing some sort of hippie game, you might also use other things like dodge, or dash, or help, or magic (cast a spell), or dash, or one of a few others (I'm looking at you, study).
In addition, certain abilities and events can trigger a BONUS ACTION or a REACTION. You only get one BONUS ACTION and one REACTION - even if you have multiple triggers or abilities that would use them.
You also usually get to move, if you're into that.
A. Fighting with two weapons.
Let's start with the good news. Fighting with two weapons is better, for the most part, than it was. However, it is also very easy to misunderstand if you are not paying attention. So allow me to break this down into the most simple components.
1. You can wield two weapons all you want, but you don't get to attack with the extra weapon during your turn unless you are able to for some reason. So let's start with that basic premise- you can always "use" two weapons (so long as they don't have the two-handed property), but while that makes for a great photo, people want to be able to get mas attacks by forsaking holding a shield, spell components, a two-handed weapon, or using their free hand to flip the bird to the enemy.
Ex. Chad is holding a mace in one hand, and a morningstar in the other hand, because he thinks it looks cool. When Chad takes the attack action, he gets one attack (either the mace or morningstar, because off-handedness isn't a thing).
Chad gets one attack, and has a bonus action remaining.
2. If both the weapons you are wielding are light weapons, then you get to use your bonus action. This is a property of light weapons.
Ex. Chad is wielding two scimitars. Both scimitars have the weapon property light. So if Chad attacks, Chad gets to make one attack (with the attack action) and one extra attack (with the bonus action).
What does this mean- if you use up your bonus action, you get two attacks.
Chad gets two attacks if he uses his bonus action.
3. If you have weapon mastery, and one of the two light weapons you are wielding has the nick property, you can move the bonus attack granted by the light property into your attack action.
Ex. Chad has weapon mastery for the scimitar from his class. Chad is wielding two scimitars. Scimitars are light and nick. So if Chad attacks, Chad gets to make two attacks (with the attack action) and now keeps the "bonus action" free for a different use. However, Chad cannot use the bonus action to attack again, because the bonus action from the light property was transferred into the attack action.
Chad gets two attacks, and keeps his bonus action, but the bonus action cannot be used for a TWF attack using the light/Nick property.
Let's throw in one small thing- fighting feats. Those "off-hand" attacks you are getting with your extra weapon? You don't get to add your ability modifier to the damage. So in (1) and (2) above? If Chad's main weapon attack would do 1d6+3 (16 in relevant score), the second attack would do 1d6. Unless Chad takes two-weapon fighting (the fighting feat), in which case all of Chad's attacks get to add the ability modifier, so Chad always does 1d6+3.
If you understand all of this, you're doing great. Basically- you can't get more than two attacks until level 4. And then the first major complication comes in! Because you can choose to take a level 4 feat.
4. If you have dual wielder feat, you can make an additional attack as a bonus action when wielding two weapons. It also has rules for drawing/stowing and using a non-light weapon for the bonus attack, but that will get overly complicated right now.
Ex. Chad takes dual-wielder at fourth level, at takes the dual wielder feat. He continue to use two scimitars (simplicity!). Chad now gets to attack twice on his attack action (nick, light) and can use his bonus action to attack a third time.
Chad gets three attacks, but uses his bonus action.
5. If you get extra attacks, those are additive, but you don't get to re-add all the other two-weapon properties. In other words, when your class feature gives you an extra attack, you get 1 extra attack. Not at extra attack action.
Ex. Chad has now hit fifth level as a fighter, and he gets an extra attack. That means he gets a second attack when he takes the attack action. So Chad gets two attacks (Fighter 5) + 1 attack (nick) in his attack, and can use his bonus action to get an additional attack.
Chad gets four attacks if he uses his bonus action.
Please note that there are further variations out there (throwing light weapon, using a non-light weapon for the bonus attack with dual wielder with the stow/use, etc.) but IMO if you understand the five points above, you can extrapolate to all scenarios. Remember the following when it comes to dual wielding-
a. Be careful with the action economy. Almost every single good dual wielding scenario (all the ones past the light/nick combo) will eat up bonus actions. YOU ONLY GET ONE.
b. Be wary of anyone trying to sell you on a ludicrous number of attacks.
c. If you don't have the fighting feat (two weapon fighting) those extra attacks won't have your ability modifiers on 'em.
B. Grappling
I'll be brief, because the rules are clear. There are a few big changes in the rules of grappling to 5e24 that many of us overlooked. Here's the quick overview-
In 5e24, you can make an "unarmed strike" as part of your attack. There are no weapon masteries or properties for an unarmed strike. Here's a handy flowchart-
1. You declare an unarmed strike action.
2. When you declare an unarmed strike action, you have the option of a) damage, b) shove, or c) grapple.
3. If you choose damage, you make an attack roll against the target.
4. If you choose grapple (or shove)... there is no attack roll. Instead, the target must make a save (either Strength or Dexterity, and the target chooses). The DC for the target's save is 8+your strength modifier+ your proficiency modifier.
So Chad wants to grapple Weezerus, God of the Hash Pipe. Chad declares that he will grapple Weezerus, and then .... that's it. The next thing that happens is that Weezerus chooses whether to make it a strength of dexterity save, with a DC set by the formula above. If Chad is 4th level with a 14 strength, the DC is (8+2+2) 12. But Chad cannot benefit from advantage or a weapon mastery or from anything other than buffing his strength. Grapple is part of an attack action, but it is not an attack roll.
But wait, there's more- and there's a reason that I am putting this along with the two weapon fighting. Unarmed strikes that are for damage can be made a number of ways- for example, by a headbutt. But grappling? Grappling always requires a free hand- both to initiate the grapple, and to maintain it. Absent other abilities, you only get one free weapon interaction per attack. In an attack action, you're allowed to either equip or unequip one weapon during your attack action (absent other abilities). But not as part of a bonus action. (Dual wielder feat lets you do two weapons per attack action). The reason I mention this is because of the requirement that a grappler must have a free hand (no weapons wielded, let alone shield, spell components, etc.) when a grapple is attempted, and must keep that hand free in order to maintain the grapple.
This isn't meant to be an exhaustive guide to grappling- obviously, we have class abilities that change things (such as the Monk's shifting of grappling from strength-based to dex-based). But I wanted to go over the basic rules because I was looking into it, and I've seen a lot of confusion between 5e14 and 5e24 grappling, and even when there isn't that confusion, a lot of misunderstanding of how the action economy and the free-hand requirement plays into grappling.
Anyway, I expect that there will be two reactions to this. Some of you will look at it and go, "Duh. Those are the rules. What's the point of this?" Some might say, "Wait, those aren't the rules, and I need to explain why they aren't!" But I hope that this will prove helpful to someone else out there and save them from cross-referencing different rules in 5e24.
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