Snarling Wolf Stance = negates melee attacks for an encounter?

[Samir]

So here's what we know.

1) Interrupts that trigger when an enemy hits you can invalidate the triggering attack and cause it to miss. See: Evade the Blow (Ranger U16), Wizard's Escape (Wizard U6).

2) Opportunity actions happen at interrupt speed.

Now, here's Snarling Wolf Stance:

Daily - Martial, Stance
Minor Action
Effect: Until the stance ends, whenever an enemy hits or
misses you with a close or a melee attack, you can make
a melee basic attack against it as an opportunity action.
You can then shift 3 squares but must not end the shift
adjacent to any enemy.

Does this mean that every time an enemy hits me with a melee attack, I make an MBA as an opportunity action and shift 3 squares as a no-action, shifting out of range and negating the triggering attack entirely?

Seems a bit strong for a level 5 daily.

 

[Aulirophile]

Hits or Misses, yes. And eh... you make yourself a non-desirable target to attack. Melee rangers are squishy. For one encounter/day, enemies are reluctant to attack you if they have any other options. Also note you can't do the shift if you can't satisfy the requirement of not ending adjacent, but you can still get the MBA.

The Ranger in my group usually saves it for when he is out of surges. Happens quite often. It is particularly hilarious when he has it up and uses Disruptive Strike to save himself from taking any damage AND hits them with an MBA. Two out of turn attacks!

 

[Samir]

Hits or Misses, yes. And eh... you make yourself a non-desirable target to attack. Melee rangers are squishy. For one encounter/day, enemies are reluctant to attack you if they have any other options. Also note you can't do the shift if you can't satisfy the requirement of not ending adjacent, but you can still get the MBA.

The Ranger in my group usually saves it for when he is out of surges. Happens quite often. It is particularly hilarious when he has it up and uses Disruptive Strike to save himself from taking any damage AND hits them with an MBA. Two out of turn attacks!

It's a very low level daily, so it's just 2 feats away from an aspiring Swordmage or Paladin who becomes basically immune to melee and close attacks for an entire encounter, while still punishing their marks for trying to attack anybody else.

I'm not saying that's even a popular choice, I'm just trying to see if there's something I missed that prevents this daily from making you nigh-invulnerable for 1 encounter/day.

 

[keterys]

There are ways around that - like having a group of enemies ready their attacks to go off at once, since you only get one opportunity attack per turn. But yeah, seems wrong. Probably the shift should be dropped.

 

[MrMyth]

It's a very low level daily, so it's just 2 feats away from an aspiring Swordmage or Paladin who becomes basically immune to melee and close attacks for an entire encounter, while still punishing their marks for trying to attack anybody else.

I'm not saying that's even a popular choice, I'm just trying to see if there's something I missed that prevents this daily from making you nigh-invulnerable for 1 encounter/day.

Well, if you need a RAW way around it, enemies can ready attacks for the PCs turn, and he can't take OAs.

But... yeah, I don't think the intent of the power was to invalidate attacks, but that does seem to be how it works.

 

[Alabast]

So here's what we know.

1) Interrupts that trigger when an enemy hits you can invalidate the triggering attack and cause it to miss. See: Evade the Blow (Ranger U16), Wizard's Escape (Wizard U6).

2) Opportunity actions happen at interrupt speed.

Now, here's Snarling Wolf Stance:



Does this mean that every time an enemy hits me with a melee attack, I make an MBA as an opportunity action and shift 3 squares as a no-action, shifting out of range and negating the triggering attack entirely?

Seems a bit strong for a level 5 daily.

It does not invalidate the triggering attack. The trigger happens when the enemy hits or misses you, not when they attack you. The opportunity attack does not occur until the triggering attack is resolved.

 

[keterys]

That's probably the intent, but they didn't word it appropriately to work like that. Probably the easiest ruling to make at the moment.

 

[Mort_Q]

The opportunity attack ...

Small point; it's not an OA, it's a MBA as an Opportunity Action (which interrupts). Makes a difference for feats, and some class features if you MC.

 

[UltimaGabe]

It does not invalidate the triggering attack. The trigger happens when the enemy hits or misses you, not when they attack you. The opportunity attack does not occur until the triggering attack is resolved.

Not true. If an Immediate Interrupt power is triggered by an enemy hitting you, or dealing damage to you, and that immediate interrupt invalidates the attack (such as by moving you or the target out of range of the attack), the triggering attack is wasted. That's why it's an immediate interrupt, not an imemdiate reaction.

 

[keterys]

Eh, it's an opportunity action, not an immediate interrupt. Opportunity actions still "interrupt" which is the important part. I will say that opportunity actions don't have the same "invalidate" language in them that Immediate Interrupts have, but I'd imagine at a _lot_ of tables it would make you able to shift away and it would invalidate the attack. At some tables, you might have to kill the person attacking in order to invalidate the attack (since opportunity actions do talk about that), and at some tables you'll get hit and damaged, then do it.

They could have said "After resolving the attack, make a melee basic attack as an opportunity action" or something similar.