Sneak Attack and TWF question

[Kae'Yoss]

Correct. As soon as you attack once, you're visible again, and the enemy can react to you again. After all, you don't have to wait for his initiative so he can start not reacting to you because you're invisible.

If you want to attack several times and stay invisible: the spell greater invisibility was created for a reason...

 

[Scion]

So, a person could surprise someone, move up, beat them in initiative and take a full round of sneak attacks on someone because they are still flatfooted.

But, if you make the mistake of being invisible first then you cannot make the full round of sneak attacks?

Interesting.

 

[Infiniti2000]

If they are flat-footed, you still get the sneak attacks. It makes no difference if you are invisible or not. The only stipulation is that your opponent must be denied his Dex. I.e. flat-flooted, flanking, blind, etc.

 

[Jdvn1]

So, a person could surprise someone, move up, beat them in initiative and take a full round of sneak attacks on someone because they are still flatfooted.

But, if you make the mistake of being invisible first then you cannot make the full round of sneak attacks?

Interesting.

No, because if a person is invisible and gets the surprise round, then he has two reasons he gets sneak attack, and only one is negated after the first attack.

 

[Scion]

I am afraid you two are missing the point.

In both cases the opponent can reasonably be said to be surprised by the new opponent. He didnt know that the guy was there.

In the first case he gets his full round of sneak attacks, in the second he does not. It is very odd.

 

[Jdvn1]

I am afraid you two are missing the point.

In both cases the opponent can reasonably be said to be surprised by the new opponent. He didnt know that the guy was there.

In the first case he gets his full round of sneak attacks, in the second he does not. It is very odd.

It's not that simple, though.

The problem with what Simplicity was saying is that you can't get a surprise round after battle has begun. If you're invisible and you get a surprise round, then you still have the surprise round, but becoming visible doesn't automatically give you a surprise round.

 

[Scion]

I am afraid I dont know what you are saying. It doesnt seem to relate to what I said directly.

 

[dcollins]

How would this apply to invisible characters?
Would they get their sneak attack bonus throughout their full attack or would they become visible after their first die roll and thus lose out on the sneak attacks for the rest of the round?

As you can see, there's some debate on this part of the issue. My interpretation is that the ability to sneak attack goes away as soon as invisibility ends with the first attack.

 

[mikebr99]

I am afraid you two are missing the point.

In both cases the opponent can reasonably be said to be surprised by the new opponent. He didnt know that the guy was there.

In the first case he gets his full round of sneak attacks, in the second he does not. It is very odd.

But it's the Flat-footed condition that is allowing a full attack, not the invisibility. It is a very bad/good (depending on your point of view) condition to be under.


Mike

 

[Jdvn1]

I am afraid I dont know what you are saying. It doesnt seem to relate to what I said directly.

The only time you get a sneak attack for 'surprising' your opponent is in the Surprise Round. After that, the opponent is not considered surprised. If you're invisible and you attack your opponent, you don't get sneak attack because you surprised him, you get sneak attack because he doesn't know you're there. When you're visible again, he knows you're there and you don't get sneak attack.

Your example does not, in fact, boil down to "In both cases the opponent can reasonably be said to be surprised by the new opponent" because invisibility/visibility doesn't surprise your opponent.