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Sneak attack/skirmish/etc: How often?

tetsujin28

First Post
How often can you perform these attacks in a round? I seem to recall it being only once, but I can't for the life of me find the reference.
 

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Drowbane

First Post
However many attacks you can manage to dish out while still satisfying whatever triggers your "uber-stab". If you have are flanking, have 5 attacks, you get to deal Sneak Attack (assuming target is subject to Sneak) for each attack.
 

Steve Jung

Explorer
Just remember what the sneak attack trigger is. For example, if it's from invisibility, only the first attack is a sneak attack. Once you make that attack, you're no longer invisible and thus the trigger is gone.
 

Storm Raven

First Post
Steve Jung said:
Just remember what the sneak attack trigger is. For example, if it's from invisibility, only the first attack is a sneak attack. Once you make that attack, you're no longer invisible and thus the trigger is gone.

Also, remember that when you use an attack that is effectively a "salvo" (like Manyshot), you only score the precision damage on the first attack in the volley.
 


frankthedm

First Post
tetsujin28 said:
Are multiple attacks against the same opponent considered a salvo?
Not likley. Mostly volleys come from Manyshot and varients there of, some multi-ray spells[debated], and other such.

Sneak applies to each

B.A.B. based attack
Monk flurry of blow attack. [A reason for no multiclassing.]
Two weapon fighting attack. [why TWF is a popular choice for a rogue]
Natural attacks in natural attack routines. a BIG reason anything with multiple natural attacks get a prohibitive Level adjustment.[ Poison dusk lizardfolk was the only roguish race to get away with LA+1, claw, claw, bite and racial no hit die]
 

Storm Raven

First Post
tetsujin28 said:
Are multiple attacks against the same opponent considered a salvo?

No. A salvo attack results from the use of feats like Manyshot and some spells, that make multiple attacks using a single attack roll. Any time you make a seperate d20 attack roll, an attack is not part of a salvo.
 

Sejs

First Post
tetsujin28 said:
How often can you perform these attacks in a round? I seem to recall it being only once, but I can't for the life of me find the reference.

Every time a given attack meets the requirements.

The rule you're thinking of pertains to instances where you get to make multiple attacks with a single to-hit roll.

If you have three attacks per round thanks to your BAB of +11/+6/+1, you're flanking with your buddy and you make a full attack, then all three of your iterative attacks are eligible as sneak attacks.
 

glass

(he, him)
Just a note, all of the above answers seem to apply to Sneak Attack (and Sudden Strike). Skirmish is a bit of a different kettle of fish, because the requirement to move 10 ft makes it (almost) impossible to make multiple attacks.


glass.
 

Land Outcast

Explorer
Just a note, all of the above answers seem to apply to Sneak Attack (and Sudden Strike). Skirmish is a bit of a different kettle of fish, because the requirement to move 10 ft makes it (almost) impossible to make multiple attacks.

Not really, Sudden Strike only works when the enemy has lost his Dex bonus to AC (i.e. not while simply flanking)
 

Hypersmurf

Moderatarrrrh...
frankthedm said:
... some multi-ray spells[debated]...

Where does the debate originate?

Complete Arcane p86:
Multiple Hits
Some weaponlike spells can strike multiple trimes in the same round. When a caster gets a bonus on damage with such spells (including sneak attack damage), the extra damage applies only to the first attack, whether that attack hits or not.

For example, a 7th level sorcerer / 3rd level rogue with Point Blank Shot makes a scorching ray attack at less than 30 feet (two rays, each requiring a ranged touch attack roll and dealing 4d6 points of fire damage). If the first ray hits, it deals 6d6+1 points of fire damage (4d6 normal + 2d6 sneak attack + 1 for Point Blank Shot), while each subsequent ray deals only 4d6 points of fire damage whether the first ray hits or not.


-Hyp.
 

drexes

First Post
What was posted earlier regarding skirmish is true, movement over ten feet prevents using a full attack but the bounding assault feat would allow two attacks. Its also important to remember that skirmish only applies to attacks on the characters turn i.e. No moving around and making cool AoO.

I love my spring attacking scout...

Drexes
 

Ridley's Cohort

First Post
A very nice build a friend put together was Fighter4/Scout5. He would use Spring Attack to set up a potential Cleave, the followup from any Cleave would also gain the bonus Skirmish dice. This build makes great use of that Scout movement bonus as well -- he can easily move away to deny the enemy an iterative attack or offer a flanking attack to an ally after his attack.
 

Yoshoken

First Post
glass said:
Skirmish is a bit of a different kettle of fish, because the requirement to move 10 ft makes it (almost) impossible to make multiple attacks.

Not true. You can make a DC40 Tumble check to move 10ft as a 5ft step. You can then take your full round action and toss off 3 shots, all with the skirmish damage added on. You can also use the Greater Manyshot feat from the Psionics book to deal multiple skirmish damage a round.
 

kigmatzomat

First Post
You can also use Expert tactician (3.0 S&S) to get an AoO on someone who is denied their dex bonus. I've got a scout/duelist who stands 10-15ft out, uses quicker than the eye to make a feint (bluff) action as a move, takes a partial charge (using the Acrobatic Strike jump) to make an attack with skirmish and then follows it up with the tactician AoO.

If the scout is lucky there are PCs with expert tactician in the immediate vicinity who can add on the whomp.
 

Hypersmurf

Moderatarrrrh...
kigmatzomat said:
You can also use Expert tactician (3.0 S&S) to get an AoO on someone who is denied their dex bonus. I've got a scout/duelist who stands 10-15ft out, uses quicker than the eye to make a feint (bluff) action as a move, takes a partial charge (using the Acrobatic Strike jump) to make an attack with skirmish and then follows it up with the tactician AoO.

Aside from the perils of mixing 3E and 3.5 materials and rules (Scout plus partial charge?), there's also potential Expert Tactician interpretation issues.

QttE only denies him his Dex bonus against your next attack, so by the time you've made your charge attack, he's no longer denied his Dex bonus. It's debatable as to whether Expert Tactician allows you to make you AoO on someone who was denied his Dex bonus, but isn't any more...

-Hyp.
 

kigmatzomat

First Post
Ignore the scout aspect for a minute.....

QTTE let's you feint as a move action and allows you a partial action to do whatever it was you didn't want them to see. A partial charge can be done as a partial action, though I believe it is limited to movementx1 instead of movementx2. They are denied their dex bonus for this partial action, whatever it is.

Expert Tactician (the revised version from Song & Silence) allows you to make a melee AoO on a creature who was denied their dex bonus. You can do this before or after your action. Since this happens on the attacker's action, the target may or may not be denied their dex at the time of the attack but the attacker still gets to make an AoO.

So you feint with QTTE to deny them their dex bonus, attack as a partial action (standard attack, partial charge, etc) and then take the ET AoO at the end of your action.

Why 3.0, you might ask. Simple, the game's been running for 5+ years and we're not switching mechanics; the spellcasters would stage a coup for giving them migraines. We had to write our own PrCs because players were ready for them prior to a relevant splat book being published, so the game is already accustomed to non-core classes. 3.5 sourcebooks are treated like any other 3rd party supplement: each class is vetted prior to introduction with tweaks made as needed. All the psionics are XPH, though not all the feats are available.
 

Hypersmurf

Moderatarrrrh...
kigmatzomat said:
Expert Tactician (the revised version from Song & Silence) allows you to make a melee AoO on a creature who was denied their dex bonus.

A creature who is denied his Dexterity bonus.

You can make one extra melee attack (or do anything that can be done as a melee attack or a melee touch attack; including attempts to disarm, trip, or make a grab to start a grapple) against one foe who is within melee reach and denied a Dexterity bonus against your melee attacks for any reason. You take your extra attack when it's your turn, either before or after your regular action.

Before your regular action, he is not a foe who is within melee reach and denied a Dexterity bonus against your melee attacks; he has his Dex bonus.

After your regular action, he is not a foe who is within melee reach and denied a Dexterity bonus against your melee attacks; he has his Dex bonus.

During your action, while you are making your QttE-augmented attack, he is a foe who is within melee reach and denied a Dexterity bonus against your melee attacks... but during your action, you can't use Expert Tactician.

Why 3.0, you might ask. Simple, the game's been running for 5+ years and we're not switching mechanics; the spellcasters would stage a coup for giving them migraines.

Fair enough, but it doesn't help anyone who's playing 3.5, since the feats you reference either don't exist or have been updated...

-Hyp.
 

glass

(he, him)
Land Outcast said:
Not really, Sudden Strike only works when the enemy has lost his Dex bonus to AC (i.e. not while simply flanking)
How does that in any way contradict anything I've said?

You can Sudden Strike with every attack that qualifies, umpteen times a round if you have enough attacks, just like sneak attack. You can't generally skirmish more than once per round.


glass.
 

kigmatzomat

First Post
I mention QTTE and Combat Tactician b/c they may have 3.5 equivalents that would give a scout a way to make multiple attacks. I called them out as 3.0 since that is the only reference I have.

OT
I still have no idea why you don't believe that QTTE and partial charge are valid combinations. QTTE requires a move action to perform and then allows a partial action. Partial charge is a partial action that involves a minimum of 10' movement and max of 30' (human) movement followed by an attack with a +2 attack modifier and a -2AC penalty.

A typical full-action charge is essentially a standard move + a partial charge (move 30' then charge 30' + attack).
 

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