Sneak Attacking with spells?

[blargney the second]

Is it possible to Sneak Attack with a spell?

It seems to me that if you can score a critical hit with a ray, you should be able to sneak attack with it... or am I completely off my rocker?

Thanks!
-blarg

 

[Darklone]

Rules for this are in Tome & Blood, but in short: Yes.

 

[Wippit Guud]

Any spell that does damage and requires an attack roll can be used as a sneak attack. So a magic missle couldn't, but Melf's acid arrow could (not not the acid after-effects)

 

[MerakSpielman]

I remember when I found out about this.

Ray of Frost suddenly became much more useful...

 

[jgsugden]

3.0 rules ...

Just to be clear, I don't think this is specified in anything 3.5, at least not yet. It only exists in 3.0 rules. Technically, until a 3.5 ruling is made, we don't have an official response for 3.5.

That being said, DMs should be cautious when considering this rule. When you get up to 4th level spells, this can result in large advantages. Two advantageous aspects fo spell sneak attacks: They can be dealt on ranged touch attacks and they can be dealt on quickened spells - resulting in an extra attack each round. These advantages are not huge, but they can result in a lot of extra damage. A quickened ray spell that deals 30 damage for a 4th level spell is pretty strong ...

 

[MerakSpielman]

By which point you are a somewhat high-level character... being able to cast 4th level spells, and having enough sneak attack dice to pull off that much damage.

I'm more worried about the 3 Rogue/1 Sorcerer who can do 1d3+2d6 damage as a ranged touch attack. Gets to use his Dex bonus to attack, ignores armor, etc...

The best mitigating factor is that ranged attacks are more difficult to make as sneak attacks than melee attacks. In melee, you can sneak attack just by flanking. From ranged, you can only sneak attack if they're denied their dex bonus (from you being hidden is the most common). The "extra ranged sneak attack per round" scenario doesn't come into play that often.

 

[Pax]

A quickened ray spell that deals 30 damage for a 4th level spell is pretty strong ...

Then again, a spell like that won't be happening until Rogue(3)/Wizard(5)/Arcane Trickster(2), and even then, that's oly +4d6 sneak attack, for an average of +16 damage. To get the +8d6 sneak you'd need to deal 30 damage with the average Quickened Ray of Frost, you would have to be at least Rogue(3)/Wizard(5)/Arcane Trickster(10). In other words, 18th level ... the same level when a straight Wizard is able to burn a Shapechange spell for each combat of the day.

Is a 30-damage Ray spell if and when the opponent is flatfooted, really such a problem at that level ... ?

 

[Wippit Guud]

Just to be clear, I don't think this is specified in anything 3.5, at least not yet. It only exists in 3.0 rules. Technically, until a 3.5 ruling is made, we don't have an official response for 3.5.

Lets see...

Rogue:
If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage. The rogue’s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. *snip* Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.

Spells:
Ray: Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack. *snip*

If a ray spell deals damage, you can score a critical hit just as if it were a weapon. A ray spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit.

That crit part is new info for me, never even thought of it... on topic, though, if you aim it just like a ranged weapon, and a rogue gets a sneak attack on ranged weapons....

 

[blargney the second]

Just to be clear, I don't think this is specified in anything 3.5, at least not yet. It only exists in 3.0 rules. Technically, until a 3.5 ruling is made, we don't have an official response for 3.5.

This is indeed for a 3.5 game, so I guess the short answer is "No." Thank you!
-blarg