Sneak Attacks on Rays

[Bobbystopholes]

If you can't visualize the ray ignoring the armor and hitting the skin beneath it, then how you can you visualize a fireball shooting from a finger? How can you visualize magic at all?

I agree with Kreynolds, don't DM. You'll make good people hate the game. Let them have fun and you'll have fun, and remember, what is good for the PCs is also good for the NPCs. Put them up against a 5th level rogue/1st level sorcerer. It's the same thing.

 

[Nvvyn]

man, read the rules before you post. Ray of enfeeblement does in fact do sneeak attack dmg. The spell works normally, doing its str dmg, and the sneak attack causes negative energy dmg's. Just like the negative energy rays. so it would do str dmg + xd6 negative energy damage.

And like the above guy said, this is magic we are tlaking about here. I know you live in a world were magic is not possible, and its very hard for you to grasp the concept of magic for a bit, but just use ur imagination man. Magic is powerful energy concentrated to do very powerful things.

As far as touch attacks. Think of a shocking grasp touch attack spell.
The invisible mage/thief sneaks up on the orc in Plate armor. As he nears the opponent, he lunges forth grabbing the orc around the neck sending waves of lightning to corse through the veins of the orc. The lightning makes its way to his brain shocking is mind; exscruciating pain wracks his brain and the orc slumps over, dead and oblivous to the world, what just happened, and what is to come....


This is opposed to just a normal mage using a shocking grasp...
The powerful mage is backed into the corner by the large brute, Using his last line of defense in hopes of a desperate victory, he channels all his magical power into the hands; lunging forth, hoping for the slightest of touches, he manages to brush the warriors armor before the large man can dodge aside, Lightning corses through his armor and burns the warriors skin badly. The warrior grunts loudly in pain, the anger corses through the warriors blood and his eyes turn red with hatred. He raises his battle axe and brings it down heavily upon the wretched and frgaile wizard, crushing his skull. his axe holds fast to the tough bone, so he uses his foot the anchor the body while he yanks it out....



How hard is that to grasp? sneak attack vrs non-sneak attack?

 

[Eccles]

Great. So now a stat. draining spell potentially does damage, a rogue/mage has a better control over his magic than a straight (and higher caster-level) mage, and I should stop DM'ing.

Well thank you all for the constructive advice.

Peace, out.

 

[AGGEMAM]

man, read the rules before you post. Ray of enfeeblement does in fact do sneeak attack dmg. The spell works normally, doing its str dmg, and the sneak attack causes negative energy dmg's. Just like the negative energy rays. so it would do str dmg + xd6 negative energy damage.

I presumme this is a stab at me.

Well, read them yourself and weep, boy ..

From the SRD

Ray of Enfeeblement
..
A coruscating ray springs from the character's hand. The character must succeed at a ranged touch attack to strike a target. The subject suffers a –1d6 enhancement penalty to Strength, with an additional –1 per two caster levels (maximum additional penalty of –5). The subject’s Strength score cannot drop below 1.

 

[Ristamar]

The man from Copenhagen is correct.

Enhancement Penalty <> Ability Damage

 

[Nvvyn]

No, he ins't, It specifically states in the Tome and Blood, (don't have one handy, not sure of page) that Any spell that uses touch attacks and does attriubute damage or level drain, effictevily does negative energy damage on the sneak attack. If you would like to refute this further, i'll be MORE than happy to look up the page.
Again I say, read the rules.

 

[Artoomis]

Okay guys, ease up a bit, will you? There is no need to be rude (in fact, there is NEVER a need to be rude, ever, even in response to someone else's rudeness).

First - this is NOT a rules question, clearly, and should be in House Rules. It looks to me like the rules are clearly understood.

Nonetheless:

As far as the change to the rules - what you propose makes a certain amount of sense, certainly. It's definately not the rules, though.

If this is one of the only exceptions you are making to the rules, go for it - it will be fine.

If this is one of many House Rules you use, don't do it. You are making the game over-complicated and unpredictable for your players. They need to be able to use the rules as written to plan their characters. Be very, very careful about introducing House Rules into your game. It can take predictability out of the rules, and that's a Bad Thing.

Finally, for your visualization problem, let's use a ranged touch attack with an electrical damage effect for an example:

1. No Sneak Attack: You fire your electric bolt out of your wand and hit the bad guy - the force runs right through his metal armor and underlying leather protection and zaps him for xxx damage.

2. Sneak Attack: You fire your electric bolt out of your wand and hit the bad guy - you managed to hit just the right spot on his helm, where it connects directly with his chain armor underneath, which, in turn, rests partially on his bare neck. The electric charge is sped along its way by your outstanding choice of target, and the bad guy takes xxx damage + xd6 more of sneak attack electrical damage.

How's that?

 

[AGGEMAM]

No, he ins't, It specifically states in the Tome and Blood, (don't have one handy, not sure of page) that Any spell that uses touch attacks and does attriubute damage or level drain, effictevily does negative energy damage on the sneak attack. If you would like to refute this further, i'll be MORE than happy to look up the page.
Again I say, read the rules.

Oh yeah, and it is page 79, and I have it handy.

What you fail to understand is that an enhancement penalty is not the same as ability damage.

An enhancement penalty is the opposite of an enhancement bonus.

Damage is something that can healed, a penalty can only be countered by a bonus, but not removed.

 

[Artoomis]

oops

 

[drowdude]

No, since it does not deal damage, it gives an enhancement penalty, which is something entirely different.

edit.... hmmm.... you may be right... an enhancement penalty *is* different... (I had no idea this had blown up into an arguement before I replied )