D&D General So… psionic powers are no longer purely mental?

[dave2008]

Not spread over 3 levels it isn't. They might do for a single level worth of psion spells, but still seems a bit short.

Really? I am not a D&D psion fan and don't know the game history. But from a general popular fiction I think you only need a few powers:

• mind control
• mind reading
• telekinesis

So maybe only three spells or needed for a psion IMO.

 

[Maxperson]

Yeah, if we look at scifi, the components are there… in Star Wars, the Force also has some components. Their mage hand usually requires waving or gesturing at things. And their Jedi Mind Trick has a distinct gesture, on top of the verbal command also, obviously. The lightning attack from Sith lords (Witch Bolt?) also requires pointing at the target. And you might say the light sabre handle is a costly component or focus that doesn’t get consumed when they cast Shadow Blade (or do some Sould Knife kinda thing…).

But then, the definition of hard scifi is "no magic", not "no psionics" … maybe Spock and the Jedis are actually mages or witches or whatever

Grand Moff Tarkin called Vader a sorcerer. The Witches of Dathomir use the force.

 

[Maxperson]

Really? I am not a D&D psion fan and don't know the game history. But from a general popular fiction I think you only need a few powers:

• mind control
• mind reading
• telekinesis

So maybe only three spells or needed for a psion IMO.

Mental powers in fiction cover far more than that. Carrie used her mind to start fires. Pyrokinesis. Others can see the future, which lends itself to abilities that give advantage in combat, danger senses, etc. The ability to read objects, see auras, feel and/or cause changes in emotion, and cast their sight far away. Clairvoyance. Astral projection is another one. Some manipulate memories. Telepathy. Some empaths can heal themselves and others. There are humans here on Earth who can do amazing things with their bodies via the power of their minds. And on and on.

When you get down to it, there's little that you can attribute to magic that you cannot also attribute to mental powers. That's why I never had an issue with 2e and 3e having a lot of psionic abilities/powers.

 

[Remathilis]

They're absolutely still purely mental, the components are there for the psion to trick themselves into believing they're truly casting a spell, then their minds do the rest of the work. Truly, the brain is such a powerful thing. /jk

On a more serious note, like it's been pointed out the psion ignores vocal and material components when casting spells, and only uses somatic components which you can flavor however you want, as long as they're obvious. I personally like to have my Psion's eyes glow, their hair starting to rise, and perhaps their body glowing or their feet leaving the ground for a second while they cast.

It's worth also pointing out that while psionic spells may have few or no components, they still create the effect as al normal. That does include needing to utter the command or say the suggestion, or that knock will still make a loud noise when used. The only exception is the invisible mage hand effect.

 

[Remathilis]

That is fine fluff but would not technically count as a somatic component by the RAW. Unless somehow you can’t make your eyes glow if you’re tied up with a rope, which would otherwise prevent somatic component spells.

Which I'm fine with. I don't mind the idea that a psion grappled or bound are distracted enough to not use most of their abilities. It also gives some indication the caster is casting enough to prep a counterspell or use mage slayer.

 

[dave2008]

Mental powers in fiction cover far more than that. Carrie used her mind to start fires. Pyrokinesis. Others can see the future, which lends itself to abilities that give advantage in combat, danger senses, etc. The ability to read objects, see auras, feel and/or cause changes in emotion, and cast their sight far away. Clairvoyance. Astral projection is another one. Some manipulate memories. Telepathy. Some empaths can heal themselves and others. There are humans here on Earth who can do amazing things with their bodies via the power of their minds. And on and on.

When you get down to it, there's little that you can attribute to magic that you cannot also attribute to mental powers. That's why I never had an issue with 2e and 3e having a lot of psionic abilities/powers.

pyrokinesis never felt like a psionic power to me - just straight up magic. I did think about telepathy, but I put that under mind reading. I forgot about clairvoyance. So be maybe four (4) spells!

But let's be honest, psionics is just magic. It has no basis in science (i.e. mental abilities), it is just magic.

 

[Maxperson]

It's worth also pointing out that while psionic spells may have few or no components, they still create the effect as al normal. That does include needing to utter the command or say the suggestion, or that knock will still make a loud noise when used. The only exception is the invisible mage hand effect.

And things that use the caster as the origin will still obviously come from the psion.

 

[Maxperson]

pyrokinesis never felt like a psionic power to me - just straight up magic. I did think about telepathy, but I put that under mind reading. I forgot about clairvoyance. So be maybe four (4) spells!

I had a lot more in there than pyrokinesis!!

The thing with something like Mind Control, is there are lots of types of that as well. Suggestion, friends, charms, dominations, etc. I think you should take a peek at the 2e and 3e psionic books. I don't 100% agree with everything they put forth, but a lot of it makes a lot of sense for a psion.

But let's be honest, psionics is just magic. It has no basis in science (i.e. mental abilities), it is just magic.

Sure, but it's mental magic, so it will have a different flavor from divine or arcane.

 

[SkidAce]

I still like the "its science we don't understand yet" flavor.

 

[Corinnguard]

When you get down to it, there's little that you can attribute to magic that you cannot also attribute to mental powers. That's why I never had an issue with 2e and 3e having a lot of psionic abilities/powers.

Just as technology can become advanced enough to be indistinguishable from magic, magic can reach a point where it's indistinguishable from psionics. And vice versa.

A sorcerer with Silent Spell, Eschew Materials and Still Spell could pass themselves off as a psion. A psion otoh will make you think they are a sorcerer.