D&D General So… psionic powers are no longer purely mental?

[dave2008]

I think you should take a peek at the 2e and 3e psionic books.

Not likely for me. I haven't liked psionics in my D&D since 1e and I am not looking to change now.

Sure, but it's mental magic, so it will have a different flavor from divine or arcane.

I personally have always thought of arcane as the mental magic. I see psionics more likely socerery in that it is innate magic. In fact, in my D&D heart breaker there are (3) ways to have magic:

1. Spiritual: magic from another source that you borrow - divine, pact magic, etc. (clerics, paladins, warlocks, druids, etc.)
2. Arcane: magic harnessed from the ambient magic in the environment through study, words of power, foci, etc. (wizards, possibly artificers, etc.)
3. Innate: magic harnessed from within you (psions, sorcerers, etc.)

The thing with my system is that the innate caster is not class dependent. Is a straight buff. So a fighter can also be Psion or sorcerer with the right bloodline (or similar) and so can a wizard or cleric. It is simply layered on top of what they already have.

 

[Blue]

But then, the definition of hard scifi is "no magic", not "no psionics" … maybe Spock and the Jedis are actually mages or witches or whatever

Jedi are "force wielders", and that very well may translate to some sort of caster analog. Spock however is definitely well documented as using telepathic powers, not some sort of magic.

 

[Corinnguard]

The Jedi with their monastic nature are more like psychokinetic warrior monks. Way of the Jedi Monk.

Way of the Living Force
Way of the Unifying Force.

 

[Minigiant]

Here's the thing when it comes to movement words and gestures, when it comes to pscionics.

Typically, people who use psychic powers have to do some kind of emotion or say a freeze. In order to do there scionics

But..

You typically cant stop them from doing it by tying them up or covering their mouths.

You typically have to completely restrain them or silence them to halt their abilty to use their powers.

And typically since psionics is mental, a strong psychic/psionic can stop and focus to use their weakest powers even then.

So the noVS thing IMO is a level thing. No for Palawan. Maybe for knights. Yes for masters.

 

[Silam]

Not likely for me. I haven't liked psionics in my D&D since 1e and I am not looking to change now.

I personally have always thought of arcane as the mental magic. I see psionics more likely socerery in that it is innate magic. In fact, in my D&D heart breaker there are (3) ways to have magic:

1. Spiritual: magic from another source that you borrow - divine, pact magic, etc. (clerics, paladins, warlocks, druids, etc.)
2. Arcane: magic harnessed from the ambient magic in the environment through study, words of power, foci, etc. (wizards, possibly artificers, etc.)
3. Innate: magic harnessed from within you (psions, sorcerers, etc.)

The thing with my system is that the innate caster is not class dependent. Is a straight buff. So a fighter can also be Psion or sorcerer with the right bloodline (or similar) and so can a wizard or cleric. It is simply layered on top of what they already have.

I view it much the same way, but I still break down that 3rd item into two: sorcery, then psionics. And possibly the first item is also broken down: getting your powers from a deity vs from a (comparatively weaker) patron.

It’s all a sliding scale of dependency:

1. You depend on a god, plus gesturing, shouting, the blood of an ox, the whole shebang.
2. Same as 1, but you depend on a mortal creature, and still need all the other artifice.
3. Wizards are the middle of the spectrum in that they are the first "self made men". They don’t depend on prayers or pacts. But they still depend on V, S, M, and in particular a very significant material is their spellbook, which if they lose is a very big deal for them. A small portion of their spells may be independent from the spellbook dependency (their cantrips).
4. Sorcerers depend on V, S, M but importantly they don’t have a spellbook. They just know their spells in their bones, so to speak. They can wake up naked in a prison cell and still have the portion of their magic that requires only V and S.
5. Psions are the most independent of all dependencies, since they (in my mind at least) require no components at all. They can not only wake up naked in a prison cell, but also gagged and tied up, and still access their powers.

After those distinctions are in place, I don’t mind saying that they’re all made up of the same "stuff"… mana, chakra, woo woo energy, the weave, the force, whatever.

 

[Corinnguard]

Psions are the most independent of all dependencies, since they (in my mind at least) require no components at all. They can not only wake up naked in a prison cell, but also gagged and tied up, and still access their powers.

Because of PF1's Psychic Magic, I really can't imagine a Psion not requiring any components for their spells. While they can cast spells that don't require words, physical gestures and items that cost a certain amount of gold pieces, they still need to put some thought (aka imagination) into how they want their spells to manifest themselves in the real world. And while they are doing that, they're feeling some kind of emotion (anger, love, despair, etc.).

Thought and Emotion spell components in PF1 replace a spell's verbal and somatic components. The former is replaced by a Thought component while the latter is replaced by the Emotion component.

 

[Silam]

It’s all a sliding scale of dependency:

1. You depend on a god, plus gesturing, shouting, the blood of an ox, the whole shebang.
2. Same as 1, but you depend on a mortal creature, and still need all the other artifice.

Upon further thinking, these should probably be swapped. Mortal patrons are the worst dependency to have… if they are killed, then you lose your powers. Gods can also be killed, but that’s much less likely…

Because of PF1's Psychic Magic, I really can't imagine a Psion not requiring any components for their spells. While they can cast spells that don't require words, physical gestures and items that cost a certain amount of gold pieces, they still need to put some thought (aka imagination) into how they want their spells to manifest themselves in the real world. And while they are doing that, they're feeling some kind of emotion (anger, love, despair, etc.).

Thought and Emotion spell components in PF1 replace a spell's verbal and somatic components. The former is replaced by a Thought component while the latter is replaced by the Emotion component.

I like the idea of thought and emotion components! Although I would think all or most magic should require those as well as the V/S/M.

 

[Corinnguard]

I like the idea of thought and emotion components! Although I would think all or most magic should require those as well as the V/S/M.

They certainly ought to.

In addition to Thought and Emotion spell components, PF1 also has its' share of Psychic character classes.

The Kineticist (think of the Benders from Avatar: The Last Airbender and the Legend of Korra) who can psychokinetically manipulate an element or elements. Level Up has a 5e version of this class, the Elementalist class.

The Medium

By contacting spirits in places of power, the medium allows the personalities of legendary heroes to overcome his own, vastly changing his abilities and spells. He holds seances to benefit himself and his allies.

The Mesmerist

A mesmerist’s piercing stare lets him insinuate himself into other people’s minds. A master of enchantment and illusion, the mesmerist controls and influences the behavior of others.

The Occultist

To make use of his powers, an occultist channels psychic energy into a varied collection of antiques and mementos with storied pasts. Every type of implement allows him to use a different school of magic.
The Psychic (PF1's take on the Psion)

The Spritualist

Attuned to the spirits of the dead, a spiritualist forms a bond with a phantom—a returned spirit that has unfinished business but did not become undead. This spectral ally can alternate between forms, emerging from the safety of the spiritualist’s mind to take on an incorporeal form or an ectoplasmic body.

 

[Minigiant]

To me lorewise there are 2 more Fluff Components and 1 more Ccrunch Component.

Divinity
 Mindset
Concentration

Divinity is a component. Its too toxic to use mechanically but clerics a paladins need attachment to a deity, oath, truth, or pantheon for magic

Concentration is a component. If you cant concentrate, the spell which need C doesnt work.

Mindset is the psionics one. Psionic characters need the matching head state of their mind to their power. They often use Verbal and Somatic elements to get there. But strong psions, mystics, and psychics can get to the right mindset without chanting for lesser powers. Stress, chaos, and confusion can throw them off.

 

[Silam]

To me lorewise there are 2 more Fluff Components and 1 more Ccrunch Component.

Divinity
 Mindset
Concentration

Divinity is a component. Its too toxic to use mechanically but clerics a paladins need attachment to a deity, oath, truth, or pantheon for magic

Concentration is a component. If you cant concentrate, the spell which need C doesnt work.

Mindset is the psionics one. Psionic characters need the matching head state of their mind to their power. They often use Verbal and Somatic elements to get there. But strong psions, mystics, and psychics can get to the right mindset without chanting for lesser powers. Stress, chaos, and confusion can throw them off.

All of that makes sense to me.

The ones who get their powers from a third party sentience (gods or patrons) have some restrictions in terms of how they can act, based on the tenets of their faith, morality, and/or the agendas of the gods/patrons they worship or pact with. This is a "moral component", perhaps.

The spellcasters which do not depend on a third party have no such qualms (though they can have their own personal morality, obviously, but their powers won’t suddenly abandon them if they compromise their principles).

Regarding the state of mind and the concentration… I sometimes wish there were more complex interactions between spells. The only interaction in the basic rules are that one concentration spell cancels a previous concentration spell, and that the action economy prevents casting spells with the same action on the same round (and no more than 1 slotted spell per round regardless). All of that makes sense of course, but it could be interesting if there was more.

I’m thinking of certain combos or progressions. For example, a spell could have as a "component" that you must have Mage Hand active prior to casting it. For example, maybe Bigby’s Hand, or Animate Objects, might require Mage Hand to be active beforehand. This is just an example and many more could be conceived. There could even be chains of more than two spells, which essentially get "upgraded" from round to round into ever more powerful forms.

This would completely change the mechanics of resource expenditure. It could limit nova-type effects where everything happens all at once on the first round.

It might also mean that losing concentration is a much bigger deal. If you’re building up to an ever-stronger effect over 4 rounds and get your concentration broken on the 3rd one, you might need to start from scratch or some number of steps back in that progression.