D&D General So… psionic powers are no longer purely mental?

[Paul Farquhar]

The magic in the Wheel of Time isn't anything like psionics.

This is where we get into nonsense land. Psionics isn't real, nor is there any single common fiction, so you cannot say what it is or is not like. The most you can do is say that it isn't like psionics as presented in a named source. And then you have to pin it down further. Comics vary with writer, D&D varies with edition.

Given that the Wheel of Time hints at being post-apocalyptic science fiction that looks like fantasy, it's perfectly reasonable to suggest that the "magic" in WoT is actually psionics.

 

[MGibster]

No. The magic in the Wheel of Time isn't anything like psionics. It's far closer to sorcerery.

Thats because psi powers are just magic with another name.

 

[Remathilis]

Sure, but not professor X. His cues are all for the audience. He doesn't have to hold his head, grimace, or have waves of invisible to the fiction, but visible to use circles come from his head.

Google image search Professor X powers. There are as many ways to depict his telepathy as there are creators doing it. But he did something to show he was using his powers. For the audience as much as for the other characters in the fiction.

And whether Xavier was doing it for the audience's sake is a moot point anyway. In D&D, the Players are the audience and they need the cues just as much as the people reading X-Men comics. Having an undetectable blast of psychic energy go off in the middle of a group with no discernable origin is a terrible way to do psionics.

 

[Remathilis]

This is where we get into nonsense land. Psionics isn't real, nor is there any single common fiction, so you cannot say what it is or is not like. The most you can do is say that it isn't like psionics as presented in a named source. And then you have to pin it down further. Comics vary with writer, D&D varies with edition.

I mean, magic itself is too varied to argue it's nuances about except to narrow it down to a source. The biggest complaint about D&D is that it doesn't match the magic of X fiction (Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, Wheel of Time). No psionics system is going to match what X fiction does any better.

 

[Corinnguard]

Thats because psi powers are just magic with another name.

Which is probably why Paizo decided to make psionics into just another kind of magic in Pathfinder. PF1-Psychic Magic, PF2- Occult Magic.

Having an undetectable blast of psychic energy go off in the middle of a group with no discernable origin is a terrible way to do psionics.

If psionics was undetectable to those who weren't psionic, a Psion would go into every encounter with an Advantage.

 

[Maxperson]

This is where we get into nonsense land. Psionics isn't real, nor is there any single common fiction, so you cannot say what it is or is not like. The most you can do is say that it isn't like psionics as presented in a named source. And then you have to pin it down further. Comics vary with writer, D&D varies with edition.

Given that the Wheel of Time hints at being post-apocalyptic science fiction that looks like fantasy, it's perfectly reasonable to suggest that the "magic" in WoT is actually psionics.

You're right! Wizards are psionics. Fighters swing psionics. It's all psionics! Or we can understand that in D&D psionics, despite it's variety over the editions, consistently represented internal mental power that used no external sources or components*. That ain't sorcery. That ain't what happened in the Wheel of Time. Especially since we know(not hinted at) that post-apocalyptic didn't have anything to do with the One Power. It existed prior, during, and after the apocalypse.

*I don't really know about 4e, it might have done some sort of different weirdness.

 

[Maxperson]

Thats because psi powers are just magic with another name.

Not quite. They also do not use external sources like the weave. Psionics are internal mental power. So while the appearance is very close to spells, and in some editions it's treated similar to magic with regard to dispelling and resistance, it's not "just magic with another name." If it was, it would have needed components that it never needed and accessed the weave.

 

[Remathilis]

If psionics was undetectable to those who weren't psionic, a Psion would go into every encounter with an Advantage.

Exactly. Magic has so little counterplay in D&D as is, I don't want psionics to remove those few guardrails that are left. I'll take the temple-pressing, grimaced face and semi-visible energy waves over invisible and undetectable abilities.

 

[Maxperson]

Google image search Professor X powers. There are as many ways to depict his telepathy as there are creators doing it. But he did something to show he was using his powers. For the audience as much as for the other characters in the fiction.

Dude. I read the comics when they happened. Yes the invisible mental energy was depicted purely for the reader multiple times. Yes he often, but not always touched his head, grimaced or whatever. He also often did none of that at all and just used his powers.

In D&D, the Players are the audience and they need the cues just as much as the people reading X-Men comics. Having an undetectable blast of psychic energy go off in the middle of a group with no discernable origin is a terrible way to do psionics.

No they don't. In D&D it's a game of imagination. I don't need someone to draw a picture of a wizard with circles coming from his head when he casts charm person. I just imagine that the other guy is charmed. Same with detect thoughts.

What there needs to be is something like what 3e did and have visual, audible, or scent effects that happen, but are NOT components of the abilities. While the D&D players absolutely do not need the cues like comic book readers, the balance of the game needs psionic effects to not be completely undetectable as to who the user is.

 

[Corinnguard]

Exactly. Magic has so little counterplay in D&D as is, I don't want psionics to remove those few guardrails that are left. I'll take the temple-pressing, grimaced face and semi-visible energy waves over invisible and undetectable abilities.

Or the glowing irises.