D&D 5E So 5E is the Successor to AD&D 2nd Edition? How and How Not?

[GrimCo]

Funny enough but our main campaign started in 2013 with 2ed and we switched it to Next playtest and then 5e proper. Half of my playgroup started with 2ed ad&d and they all said that 5e gives them 2e vibes.

Some similarities are quick and easy way to build characters, with almost no choices (except subclass) after creation. Remember, feats are very much optional rule back in 2014. Also, skills are very much simplified and more similar to NWP than to 3.x skills. You pick them at creation and that's it, that's what you have. One can roll new level 3 character in couple of minutes in both 5th and 2ed. But in 3x or 4th, yeah, good luck with that.

3/4ed are much more codified. FE skills in 3x, there are tons of them, and there is precise list of what each skill does. 2e either doesn't use them, or if you use them, they are very broad. Same as skills in 5e, less skill, but they are more broad and more up to player/dm how to use them in creative ways.

Where they differ is that 2e was much more deadly game and required more player skill, specially at low levels. 5e is more forgiving and encurages you to take more risk since it's harder to die.

 

[Ferrousbones]

I haven't read much anything from this thread, but I did some searches and noticed something not mentioned:

The Forgotten-Realms/Faerun map of 5e is the same (scale) as that of 2e, as opposed to the somewhat smaller & chopped up 3e.

 

[pukunui]

The Forgotten-Realms/Faerun map of 5e is the same (scale) as that of 2e, as opposed to the somewhat smaller & chopped up 3e.

Yes, I believe Mike Schley used the 2e map as the basis for his 5e map. It's not identical, but it's closer to the 2e map than the 3e or 4e maps. He even put the gaps in the roads back in - like the one in the Trade Way south of Dragonspear Castle. The 3e and 4e maps both also have a road from Baldur's Gate up to the Trade Way south of Dragonspear Castle, but that's missing from the 5e map.

 

[Chaltab]

5e is 3e but slower and weaker.

I... dont' think it's actually either of those things in general. Like sure upper level 3E with optimization gets insane but the average 5E character is tankier, melee is way more robust, and spells deal far more damage.

 

[Quickleaf]

I think it was more the vibe, ‘rulings over rules’, magic items not being as important / baked in. That kind of stuff

I guess I can see that. For me there's a pretty stark contrast between TSR D&D up through 2nd edition and WotC D&D beginning with 3rd. I can see why players who were very into 3e and/or 4e would say 5e is "rulings over rules", but when I think of my 2nd edition days... hoooo boy those games makes the assertion "5e is rulings over rules" look laughable in comparison. We also had sooo many magic items floating around in AD&D, thanks to the way the treasure tables worked.

 

[Minigiant]

I... dont' think it's actually either of those things in general. Like sure upper level 3E with optimization gets insane but the average 5E character is tankier, melee is way more robust, and spells deal far more damage.

I meant in slower and weaker game power and rules gain progression.

I feel 5e is low-mid level 3e as the designers intended. 5e fixed the major hang up 3e had which were missed because they didn't Playtest past low level enough.

I feel 5e plays and DMs like a new person to D&D who starts with 3e would think 3e plays and DMs and no one corrected them.

 

[Gorg]

Far more than a specific mechanic, 5e is meant to be the successor to 2e (or TSR D&D more generally) in that the DMs are supposed to have more explicit authority to override player-facing character rules.

Removing cost (and expected acquisition rate) from magic items, so that they're handed out solely on the DM's schedule, is one example.

I liked that latter part quite a bit. The whole item creation feat thing from 3E just felt kinda...cheap. Esp compared to the TSR era D&D I grew up on. The scribe scrolls and make potions thing- fine, that's part and parcel of being a wizard, and is a great way to have a larger variety of useful spells at hand- but you have to use them wisely! (single use consumables)

But the other stuff... Yeah, SOMEBODY is making them, but what adventurer wants to become a magic item factory?? It just felt off, to me. Some things are best left to the DM's purview. (and this from the persective of a player in a long running monty haul campaign, lol. We had ridiculous amounts of magic stuff- like multiple pages stapled to our sheets, it was way out of hand)

I do like that 3e really introduced the concept of buying common utility items like regular goods- as an actual thing.

I also like how 5e changed things up by giving PC classes enough kewl fun bits baked right in- that you no longer needed gobs of magic items.

 

[Gorg]

To me, I think 5e is just the next logical step in the progression. As well as a course correction back to the more standard D&D from 4e

Imo, it's nearest predecessor is 3/3.5. Just with the heavy crunch reduced, some power creep hot spots addressed, and some concepts from 4e added.

One obvious example is what 3e referred to as a "power up suite". Where spellcasters esp, could- given enough warning of an impending fight- cast all the buff spells they wanted on themselves or allies. Transforming themselves into a juggernought. A lot of stuff stacked, spells were all duration based, and there were few limits on how many you could have up at any one time.

5e put a real kibosh on that by making the majority of those sort of spell concentration based. And you can only concentrate on ONE spell at a time. Goodbye turning your cleric into an absolute unit of a wrecking machine, if given time to prepare. I'll gladly trade that for the 5e domains- they just feel like a much more fleshed out idea.

 

[Gorg]

Have you read the new Mm? Monster damage is a lot higher now.

yep. for example, a bog standard orc in 5e (2014) has a +5 to hit with a greataxe for 1d12+3 damage. for a CR 1/2 creature. That's a big ouch, and +5 means they hit fairly often- esp the lower AC's of low level adventurers that usually encounter them. And then there are the specialty Orcs, and the Mac Daddy Orcs...

Gnolls are even worse, esp if you have Volo's. A gnoll warband is a terrifying thing to have to deal with! They come with DEMONS!!

And, they tend to have more HP than early edition versions.

AD&D characters of similar levels would be extremely hard pressed.

 

[Retreater]

One of the things that I liked in 2E was that optional rules were in the PHB: Secondary Skills, Proficiencies, Individual Initiative, Weapon vs. Armor, Classes aside from the "Core 4," etc. It showed to the players that DMs can customize the rules, instead of hiding all that in the DMG where players (and frankly, most DMs) will never see them.