So a player presents a character with really high ability scores--what do you do?

[D+1]

I'd like to avoid simply 'proscribing' a method of character creation, something liek point-buy or whatever. But if a Cheracter's ability scores seem out of line (say, none under 12 and about 3 15 or better), what's the best way to handle it

Say, "Hey! Nice rolls. Okay, so you're all in a bar..."

Having really good stats for a PC is not a problem unless the player STUPIDLY assumes that once you GET good stats you're essentially done with character creation and any further character development. A player who relies solely on good stats to provide him with a fun game is going to be really hard to live with:

"Sir Wannabe takes 12 points and dies."
"But HOW? Look at my stats! Mr. Wizards has lousy stats and HE'S not dead..."
"Because Mr. Wizard's player knows that bad stats played well is a lot more fun than awesome stats played stupidly."

Unless you're saying that you suspect said player of having CHEATED to get his stats. But in this case it reverts right to a question of - if he's CHEATED, why no 18's? Or at least one or two 17's? If your players are that bad at cheating you have nothing to worry about.

It is not a crime for a PC to be GOOD at something.

Oh, but there's one more possibility - that the player will assume not just that his character is SuperMan, but a jack of all trades. That with such great stats he both can and SHOULD be a better fighter than all other fighters in the party, a better wizard than other wizards, a better rogue than other rogues - even if he doesn't have any of those classes. Good stats is NOT an excuse to revel in pushing other characters out of the limelight - even if you can.

It takes no less skill to play a character well with good stats as with really BAD stats. It's just that the challenges are a little different, and perhaps even largely meta-game.

 

[Crothian]

I've found that while differences in stats may have a difference, its the player behind the character sheet that really matter. So, they can use point buy, they can roll attributes, they can pick the numbers out of thin air for all I care. The purpose is to have fun, and everybody always does.

 

[Celtavian]

re

When you pair this with the fact that dice rolling can lead to horribly unbalanced parties, this leaves point buy as the only viable option for character creation.

The fact that numerous people, including myself, have used the dice-rolling character creation method for years and never had much of a problem with it makes your assertion that point is the only viable option for character creation a fallacy. You make overreaching statements with contrary evidence right before you.

Dice-rolling or point buy, it doesn't matter. I've done both. They both work just fine. With dice-rolling, you might occasionally have a standout character with or a particularly feeble character. With point buy, you might have a clone.

 

[Gizzard]

I've found that while differences in stats may have a difference, its the player behind the character sheet that really matter.

If you're not engaging in a lot of combat thats probably true.

But I agree with the poster on the previous page about the 47 point Half-Orc Barbarian - we had the same experience in our group. The Barbarian was very strong in combat and he had silly amounts of Skill Points to throw around to make sure he was good at plenty of other stuff. Other players may have been better role-players or smarter tactically, but it really didn't matter as the Barbarian way just flat-out stronger in combat. (Sidenote: I saw the player "roll" his Barbarian in two tries using the Character Gen utility which came with the 3.0E PHB. Was that cheating to roll twice? Would the DM have allowed it if he had known? Exactly the reason why the DM should not tempt even fundamentally honest players if he expects a level playing field.)

Now this was from 1st-6th level, and I'm sure being a better player means more when you are 15th level. But the biggest chunk of people play low- and mid-level characters, and that's where an 18 is a noticable advantage over a 15.

 

[Emiricol]

Wow, this thread has degenerated in the tired, old, and rather silly debate on point-buy vs rolling. Thankfully, this debate only skewers otherwise interesting threads a few times each year, these days (and pretty much said the same stuff over and over and over and over...)

Returning to the topic - I think if you trust your player, then there are no issues. If you don't, then have him roll in front of you (or better yet just make it a blanket rule that they have to roll in front of you, so no one is being singled out individually).

 

[Chasmodai]

...point-buy vs rolling

My group tends to use a... hybrid of both methods. Roll 4d6, drop the lowest, 6 times. Roll 2 sets. Add up the scores (14+16+13...=**) of each set and take the better. You then 'point-buy' on a one-for-one basis, with the score you rolled as the limit.

It lets us satisfy our powergaming desires without going too overboard.

There is a variety here as well - the average roll adds up to a 85 or so. This means something along the lines of 18/18/15/14/10/10. It's somewhat min-maxed, I suppose, but that's the way we like to play. It also means that the DM's NPCs use the same creation method, so the bad guys are as powerful (if not more) as the good guys.

Why go through all the bother, you ask? Why not simply use regular point-buy? Well, the only thing I can say is that the regular point-buy gives me a headache and that I like high numbers. Sue me.

As a side note, the highest I've ever rolled was a 98 (18/18/16/18/14/14). In front of the DM, while we were having coffee. Which brings me to the next point:

Wow! All of you DM's that have your players roll in front of you are anal.

Cool it man. Usually people roll in front of the DM one at a time, so he can take a look at each and everyone's stats. I don't see why this is anal. It's not a matter of trust, but more so the DM can take note of the power levels/balance. What this means that someone who rolled really low might get to roll an extra set, so he can feel less useless.

Besides, if you want to do something as pathetic as cheating on your stat rolls, go play with someone else.

 

[Nightfall]

Simple, if you're in a Scarred Lands game, make darn sure you charge x3 for weapons and armor, no matter WHO are you!

 

[Dracolich]

Cool it man. Usually people roll in front of the DM one at a time, so he can take a look at each and everyone's stats. I don't see why this is anal. It's not a matter of trust, but more so the DM can take note of the power levels/balance. What this means that someone who rolled really low might get to roll an extra set, so he can feel less useless.

Oh, is that what your DM uses as his excuse? Because, he couldn't just look at the character sheets after everyone has rolled, huh?

 

[Altalazar]

The fact that numerous people, including myself, have used the dice-rolling character creation method for years and never had much of a problem with it makes your assertion that point is the only viable option for character creation a fallacy. You make overreaching statements with contrary evidence right before you.

Dice-rolling or point buy, it doesn't matter. I've done both. They both work just fine. With dice-rolling, you might occasionally have a standout character with or a particularly feeble character. With point buy, you might have a clone.

It is true that much of the time, with the various methods used, you'll end up with a group of characters who all basically end up with the same stats they'd have had if they all had identical point buys, and then the issues I mentioned won't materialize. But it can also happen that you'll have the 22 pt and 47 pt characters in the same group, and then the problems WILL be there.

But then if the only reason you end up not having problems with stat disparity is because, by random chance, everyone ended up with characters that would have been based on the same number of points under point buy anyway, one might as well just guarantee that result by starting with point buy in the first place.

 

[Chasmodai]

Because, he couldn't just look at the character sheets after everyone has rolled, huh?

If he* did that, and found that one player had stats that were 'poor' compared to the others, he'd probably allow the player to reroll them stats, for balance's sake. And if the player rerolled and got better stats, time would be wasted when the player makes appropriate changes to his c-sheet.

Besides, when we meet up to roll stats (and have lunch/dinner/breakfast) and create characters (this always happens a few days before the game actually starts, for expediency's sake), we get to sit around and shoot the breeze for a couple hours, outside of game.

Cos, y'know, some of us actually have lives outside of DnD.







*Every single player in our extensive group (15 or so people) has DM-ed at one point or another, some more regularly than others. So when I say 'he', I'm actually referring to fifteen or so people.