So, about Expertise...

[keterys]

The google has this to say on Infinite Oregano and I heartily recommend anyone who has not read it, do so, as it's great

As it's an unnamed bonus, by default it stacks, so the theory is that someone using a polearm heavy blade like a glaive would take expertise polearm and expertise heavy blade, stacking two unnamed bonuses for up to a +6 bonus to attack. I don't support or condone that interpretation, but have fun disproving it

 

[AngryPurpleCyclops]

PHB pg. 287

Basic Attacks are at-wills

This is not the same as at-wills are basic attacks. A basic attack is a particular at-will. At-wills are not basic attacks, and thus when it says "make a basic attack" you can only make a basic attack not use a different at will power with the exception of magic missile (and eldritch blast if memory serves me).

Oops my bad, I misread, the inference I gleaned was that you could use an at-will when it said make a basic attack. Upon rereading I see what you were saying (the feat does apply it's bonus to basic attacks because they are at-wills).

 

[Obryn]

As a thought experiment... If this were in PHB1, would everyone have the same opinions?

I've been trying to figure that one out in my own head. I think it would have given me the "OMG everyone's getting this one!" vibe, but like I said, I get that from Superior Weapon Proficiency, too.

-O

 

[AngryPurpleCyclops]

The google has this to say on Infinite Oregano and I heartily recommend anyone who has not read it, do so, as it's great

As it's an unnamed bonus, by default it stacks, so the theory is that someone using a polearm heavy blade like a glaive would take expertise polearm and expertise heavy blade, stacking two unnamed bonuses for up to a +6 bonus to attack. I don't support or condone that interpretation, but have fun disproving it

ahhh, I see said the blind man. Obviously not the intent, and clearly not going to be allowed by many DM's. I'm sure the errata will eventually pick this up in any event.

Thanks for the link.

B

 

[keterys]

As a thought experiment... If this were in PHB1, would everyone have the same opinions?

I would. It's far better than superior weapon proficiency. I literally can't imagine any character I make not taking it, and I hate that kind of feat.

 

[ppaladin123]

Can someone with a math bent and an obsessive compulsive personality please analyse the averages of all defences in the MM and all average attack bonuses with weapons and implements and then tell me if there is a problem with the math or not?

If there is, then this feat is errata disguised as crunch and I'll happily just add bonuses to hit at appropriate levels as freebies.

If there isn't, then I'd like everyone to stop complaining.

Wishful thinking?

Kzach, there is a thread about this on the WotC character optimization forums:

Hitting things at really high levels - Wizards Community

From the general discussion I get the impression that this is, indeed, disguised errata. Judge for yourself.

 

[Stalker0]

Chalk up another vote for disguised errata.

If it was +1 to attack rolls straight up, I could possibly buy it. Still an amazing feat, but not necessarily the absolute must have.

+3 at high levels is beyond good, its automatic.

 

[Mr. Wilson]

Yeah, I'm just gonna hard bake this into the game at appropriate levels, as it looks this is a basic math fix on WoTC's part.

+1 to hit at 5, 15, and 25 for everyone.

 

[AngryPurpleCyclops]

Especially as it's an untyped bonus it appears obvious that it's designed to fix the math flaw.

 

[Eldorian]

It's disappointing is what it is. I'll have to convince my DM to just give everyone a +1 to hit at 5, 15, 25. Or maybe 1, 11, 21. I also think it might be a good idea to add in +1 to all stats at 4, 8, 11, 14, 18, 21, 24, 28, to change the non ac defenses to scale properly. Also helps certain classes like paladins, clerics, melee rangers, star pact warlocks.

WotC should just man up and say that they were off a bit in the math.

I think the idea is that at higher levels, you were supposed to have miscellaneous bonuses to hit at pretty much all times due to buff type powers, e.g. a plus 6 to hit every other turn, but in practice you don't have these bonuses so they put the feat in to fix this problem. This is the difference between playtesting and actual play. Actual play is much more though.