I COMPLETELY agree with this.
If our assumptions are correct, I´ll give it for free as well.
So, about Expertise...
- Thread starter Obryn
- Start date
If our assumptions are correct, I´ll give it for free as well.
Eldorian
First Post
Actually, that's a separate issue. I'm not so worried about your non AC defenses not increasing when light armor increases due to masterwork, mostly because there are paragon tier feats which add to them.
No, the issue I was pointing out is that at 4, 8, 14, 18, 24, 28 you increase only 2 stats, affecting at maximum only two non AC defenses. For example, my barbarian is a 18 str and 18 con warforged. His fort defense is 4 higher than his will, and his reflex is 1 lower than the will. And this gap will widen as he levels due to never putting a point into dex or wis at the 4, 8, etc levels.
OK, so 3 issues with DnD math as you level.
1. Attack bonus falls behind, compared to the rate monster defenses increase, at about 1 point per mid tier.
2. Maximum non AC defenses fall behind by 1 point at paragon, 2 at Epic, but there are feats to increase these at paragon.
3. Minimum non AC defenses (everyone has at least one) fall behind at 8, 14, 28, due to lack of increases to all stats at these levels.
Solutions?
1. Add 1 to hit at 5, 15, 25 or something.
2. Do nothing, or perhaps add 1 to them at 15, 25.
3. Increase all stats instead of just two at 4, 8, 14, etc.
Implementation? WotC: Supergood Feats! (sweep those last two under the table)
How about add +2 to all stats at level 11 and 21? Ditch weapon expertise. Add two new feats:
Combat Expertise: +1 to attack rolls with encounter attack powers.
Power Expertise: +1 to attack rolls with daily attack powers.
The latter two are there for those people who get frustrated with missing their encounter or daily powers too frequently. The two could be combined into one feat also, but I wouldn't want to make it more powerful than certain other conditional feats.
The +2 to all stats will address both the attack bonus issue, and the NAD issue.
Combat Expertise: +1 to attack rolls with encounter attack powers.
Power Expertise: +1 to attack rolls with daily attack powers.
The latter two are there for those people who get frustrated with missing their encounter or daily powers too frequently. The two could be combined into one feat also, but I wouldn't want to make it more powerful than certain other conditional feats.
The +2 to all stats will address both the attack bonus issue, and the NAD issue.
Lab_Monkey
First Post
Interesting feat. Funny that attack bonuses were so hard to come by until this feat with no prereqs that stacks with everything.
In regards to the non-AC defenses- did anyone notice the Boots of Quickness, Belt of Vim, and Circlet of something or other that add to your Reflex, Fort, and Will? All three are in the Adventurer's Vault. Now that these are out, it seems like all my players want for their foot, waist and head slot items are these three items. I'm bummed as it makes for less interesting magic item selection and basically kills three item slots to shore up defenses.
In regards to the non-AC defenses- did anyone notice the Boots of Quickness, Belt of Vim, and Circlet of something or other that add to your Reflex, Fort, and Will? All three are in the Adventurer's Vault. Now that these are out, it seems like all my players want for their foot, waist and head slot items are these three items. I'm bummed as it makes for less interesting magic item selection and basically kills three item slots to shore up defenses.
Walking Dad
First Post
Yes, mandatory magic items
Good that we left the ability boosters, deflection rings etc with the old edition
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Hm, I would like to read the implement variant, Magic Missle and Eldritch blast counting as base attacks.
Just because I'm tired of reading this in this thread.
Please view page 287 of the PHB. Notice the fancy power-card like setup and fancy green at-will headings of the two basic attacks. Then read the actual description of basic attacks:
"A basic attack is an at-will attack power that everyone possesses, regardless of class."
Basic attacks are powers, it's quite explicit.
Thanks,
Nick
Smeelbo
First Post
A kludge, by any other name...
As written, this is a kludge, plain and simple. Everyone will take this feat, they'd have to be insane not to. Essentially, characters will pay a "feat tax," to cover Hasbro's poor development methodology, while us players pay $34.95, plus discounts, sales tax, shipping and handling (operators are standing by).
Indeed, the worst part is that the fix is probably not even necessary. Not that I've played beyond low heroic, but when I heard about the "tier gap" between player offenses and monster defenses, my immediate conclusion was that was no problem, that groups were to intended to make up the difference by applying penalties to their opponent's defenses, with powers like Splintering Shot. Since penalties stack while bonuses don't, this is a perfectly reasonable response.
If Hasbro has actually sent this to the printer as worded, it is a clear sign that they have given up on thoughtfully maintaining the game, and have surrendered to the cheap fix and the fast buck. That feat alone will sell tens of thousands of PHB2's.
If the developers had been looking for a more thoughtful solution, they would have looked towards powers that apply a penalty to defense. End of gap, end of problem, and players could then strategize about how to best go about applying those penalties, instead of simply pressing the BUY IT NOW button.
When I first read 4E after its release, I immediately predicted that Hasbro would wind up selling us The Book of +2s. I would not have predicted that they would be selling that less than a year after 4E's initial release.
Very disappointed,
Smeelbo
As written, this is a kludge, plain and simple. Everyone will take this feat, they'd have to be insane not to. Essentially, characters will pay a "feat tax," to cover Hasbro's poor development methodology, while us players pay $34.95, plus discounts, sales tax, shipping and handling (operators are standing by).
Indeed, the worst part is that the fix is probably not even necessary. Not that I've played beyond low heroic, but when I heard about the "tier gap" between player offenses and monster defenses, my immediate conclusion was that was no problem, that groups were to intended to make up the difference by applying penalties to their opponent's defenses, with powers like Splintering Shot. Since penalties stack while bonuses don't, this is a perfectly reasonable response.
If Hasbro has actually sent this to the printer as worded, it is a clear sign that they have given up on thoughtfully maintaining the game, and have surrendered to the cheap fix and the fast buck. That feat alone will sell tens of thousands of PHB2's.
If the developers had been looking for a more thoughtful solution, they would have looked towards powers that apply a penalty to defense. End of gap, end of problem, and players could then strategize about how to best go about applying those penalties, instead of simply pressing the BUY IT NOW button.
When I first read 4E after its release, I immediately predicted that Hasbro would wind up selling us The Book of +2s. I would not have predicted that they would be selling that less than a year after 4E's initial release.
Very disappointed,
Smeelbo
Obryn
Hero
Ummm... I think that's on the excessively paranoid side of things.
It's in PHB2, but I think it's kinda silly to think anyone will buy this book specifically so their character can take this feat... No D&D game I've ever run has worked like this.
-O
Smeelbo
First Post
Splintering Shot applies a penalty even on a miss. I don't know the other classes' powers as well as I do rangers'. There are various ways to get a bonus for a specific attack, such as Aid Another or Furious Smash, so with some team work, you could get that penalty to stick.
In any case, the point is they could have chosen to add new powers that apply penalties to defenses in a way that gave rise to interesting tactics, but instead they have literally taken the cheap way out (fewer developer hours).
New book, I dub thee, "The Player's Handbook +2."
Smeelbo
EDIT:
Don't kid yourself. Whether it's Magic the Gathering or Dungeons and Dragons, power creep is in no small part intended to increase Hasbro's sales volume.
In any case, the point is they could have chosen to add new powers that apply penalties to defenses in a way that gave rise to interesting tactics, but instead they have literally taken the cheap way out (fewer developer hours).
New book, I dub thee, "The Player's Handbook +2."
Smeelbo
EDIT:
I've sold well over a thousand D&D books, probably closer to two thousand, and yes, I've seen this all the time. For example, I've sold 3.5's Complete Divine simply on the basis of the feat that allows a cleric to burn a turn check to spontaneously cast a domain spell.RuneStar said:
Don't kid yourself. Whether it's Magic the Gathering or Dungeons and Dragons, power creep is in no small part intended to increase Hasbro's sales volume.
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