So, Attacks of Oppportunity?

[Incenjucar]

OA rules do very little for the DM. If the DM doesn't want the kobolds to rush past the fighter to gank the wizard, then they don't.

Whut.

No, if there's nothing keeping me from ganking the wizard then I'm ganking the wizard the instant he or she reveals himself or herself as a such.

Why should the DM constantly make terrible tactical decisions? A fudged roll once in awhile, sure, but for every encounter in every game?

 

[Steely_Dan]

Whut.

No, if there's nothing keeping me from ganking the wizard

"whut" "ganking"...you should chigiddy check yourself, because good D&D is bad for yo health...

 

[Remathilis]

How bout something nice and simple...

There are two different ways to quit a fight: by withdrawal or retreat. When characters withdraw, they leave carefully, with an eye on the combat. Withdrawing is a special kind of maneuver-the withdrawing character backs up 5 feet per round. As soon as the character stops, combat may begin again (if the attacker followed him).
When a character retreats, he turns and runs away at top speed. If the attacker can catch or strike the defender (described later), the attacker receives a combat bonus. The retreating character cannot strike back at the attacker.

EDIT: 5,000th post! W00t!

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

So how do OAs slow the game down when a rule says when they happen, but not slow it down when the GM says when they happen?

Nobody would ever challenge a DM for (yet again) apparently rewriting the rules in some arbitrary fashion because he feels like it. No, sirree. Just letting the DM make up stuff always speeds the game up.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

And in practice, OA rules don't affect the players that much either. Low hp classes already have incentive to stay away from melee. Classes that want to duck in and out of melee tend to find ways to do it even when OA rules are present (high AC, spring attack, etc...), usually by exploiting even more rules. Do away with the whole mess and player behavior doesn't really wind up that different in the end. About the only major change I saw was with the Wizard ducking in and out with shocking grasp, and that's more a problem of the Wizard not having a comparably damaging ranged at-will.

Few people seem to recognize when sucking up the hit from an OA is a good tactical move. So do I get to make my cool move with no penalty, or is it just disallowed completely as a penalty for being more skilled than everyone else?

 

[satori01]

No, if there's nothing keeping me from ganking the wizard then I'm ganking the wizard the instant he or she reveals himself or herself as a such.

If every monster acts like Seal Team 6, what do you do (outside of powering up the monsters) when you want the party to fight Seal Team 6?


I would say DMs making every monster a Patton, is just as pervasive, and pernicious as making all monsters idiots.


That said, NO AOO. I've ran about 4 different playtests with 7 different people, all whom played lots of 3e and at least some 4e, (and some lots of that as well), and everyone has commented on liking not having AOO.


I must admit, I did experiment with "Readied Reactions".
Basically at the end of you turn, you can ready a reaction.


Thus the Fighter rappeled down a cavern ledge, shot a Kobold with the crossbow, and then pulled her Axe and readied an " I attack anything that comes next to me".


If something triggered the reaction, the corresponding action was used on their next turn. Thus if the Fighter above killed a Kobold out of turn, their " Action", would be gone on the next turn.


1 reaction per turn, still applied, and I did not allow for permanent initiative order changes for interrupts.


For something I made up on the spot, it kept people engaged even when it was not their turn, and allowed people to detail their "attack posture" at the end of their turns.

 

[the Jester]

I generally agree on this, but the "drop your guard" argument is overrated...

Unless you are using a shield, the only weapons that come to mind that allow you to attack with them without dropping your guard would be piercing blades (e.g. rapier, spear), a crossbow (provided it's already loaded) and a spell without somatic component.

By "drop your guard" I mean "don't pay attention to the threat that the guy threatening you represents".

So how do OAs slow the game down when a rule says when they happen, but not slow it down when the GM says when they happen?

Well, for my own playstyle and from those of my players:

For one thing, they're less common. For another, the players don't obsess over whether they'll trigger them for ten minutes before deciding what to do.

 

[ren1999]

I was assuming that the fighter had the streaker in her field of view before getting an opportunity attack. But you make a good observation. Should she be allowed to block multiple opponents or those out of her sight from running past her to eviscerate the white bearded old man?

I think designers can let us look at one half of the cake while eating the other half if they would make a rule that says all opponents within the field of view of the fighter stop when running adjacent to her. They must then attack her instead of the wizard as if they had the marked condition.

But I am very excited about the Dodge Action and how useful it is now. Why not just let the players skip their turn if they would like to take an opportunity attack or defensive action when they are attacked?

Instead of shooting a Magic Missile, a wizard could cast Blade Barrier as his reaction at being attacked then skip his standard action turn.

 

[Incenjucar]

If every monster acts like Seal Team 6, what do you do (outside of powering up the monsters) when you want the party to fight Seal Team 6?

Seal Team 6 would attack the wizard BEFORE the wizard made it clear that they're the biggest threat.

I would say DMs making every monster a Patton, is just as pervasive, and pernicious as making all monsters idiots.

Yay for strawman arguments!

That said, NO AOO. I've ran about 4 different playtests with 7 different people, all whom played lots of 3e and at least some 4e, (and some lots of that as well), and everyone has commented on liking not having AOO.

I must admit, I did experiment with "Readied Reactions".
Basically at the end of you turn, you can ready a reaction.

Thus the Fighter rappeled down a cavern ledge, shot a Kobold with the crossbow, and then pulled her Axe and readied an " I attack anything that comes next to me".

If something triggered the reaction, the corresponding action was used on their next turn. Thus if the Fighter above killed a Kobold out of turn, their " Action", would be gone on the next turn.

1 reaction per turn, still applied, and I did not allow for permanent initiative order changes for interrupts.

For something I made up on the spot, it kept people engaged even when it was not their turn, and allowed people to detail their "attack posture" at the end of their turns.

Yeah, I don't pay people to give me extra work to do to make their rules work.

 

[Neonchameleon]

We didn't notice, as in our 3rd/4th Ed campaign of 7 years, I think we had 3, as we all play tactically smart, and they were clunky, disruptive and dull.

Tactically smart and conservative. The best tacticians at my 4e table deliberately provoke when it suits us, myself included.

If every monster acts like Seal Team 6, what do you do (outside of powering up the monsters) when you want the party to fight Seal Team 6?

That's not Seal Team 6. That's Milita or Recruit Team 4. SOP: Gank the wizard when you've found him. He's both a soft target and very dangerous.

Veteran team 9 open fire on anyone not in armour before the wizard starts casting spells at them if they can.

And Seal Team 6 open with a surprise round involving a thunderstone in the centre of the party, a tanglefoot bag on anyone in heavy armour, and everyone else ganging up to gank the wizard in the surprise round. Round 2 they move on the next softest target, trying to make sure anyone in heavy armour is still tanglefooted.

I would say DMs making every monster a Patton, is just as pervasive, and pernicious as making all monsters idiots.

And not ganking the wizard given half a chance is IMO making them idiots.