So, Dark Sun: It's officially out. What do you think of it?

[Bagpuss]

Not an option- there is nothing that could make me RUN 4Ed. Play, yes; run, never.

Weird, everyone in our group that has DM'ed 4th Ed finds it much easier and more enjoyable to run than 3rd. As a player some don't like it as much, but as a DM even the ones that dislike it as a player prefer it to 3rd Ed as a DM.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

So are your assertions they changed things that didn't need to be changed. Funny how it works like that isn't it?

My apologies- its clear you're thinking I'm asserting facts- I'm just stating my opinion.

So, to clarify:
There are changes in 4Ed that- IMHO- were poorly handled, and as such, leave a bad taste in my mouth. Enough have been made- and the 4Ed Dark Sun races are merely the latest exemplars- that a trend has been established which has resulted in my deciding not to spend any more money on 4Ed.

And as "Group Librarian"- by my own decision- I've spent a bit on the game...a lot more than I thought I would after getting my pre-ordered Core 3.

Weird, everyone in our group that has DM'ed 4th Ed finds it much easier and more enjoyable to run than 3rd. As a player some don't like it as much, but as a DM even the ones that dislike it as a player prefer it to 3rd Ed as a DM.

Its not about ease, its about whether the game does what I want how I want. HERO does. 3.X does. Many games do.

GURPS doesn't, and neither does 4Ed.

But all of the above are, to me, enjoyable as a player. I'm currently having a blast playing my Dwarven Starlock (multiclassed Ranger).

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Sure! And mechanically? That's almost indistinguishable from what happens.

Your way: Kreen is wielding a bow and an axe. He evidently shot the bow on his last turn, and is watching for someone to provoke an OA with the axe.

Official way: Kreen is wielding a bow, with an axe in his weaker hands. If someone provokes an OA from him, he can swap weapons as a free action on the provoker's turn, and make that OA.
-O

As I recall, the Bug's bow has not been fired- the arrow is still nocked.

My way the Bug doesn't have to swap- which, personally, I don't think should be a free action- AND doesn't get a damage bonus if the weapon is Versatile. He IS ready to attack at range or in melee.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

On the thri-kreen issue above... What bothers me about the (IMO unnecessary) change to thri-keen concerning arms is that they could have left the abilities essentially the same and offer a free handle action or two per turn to cover having multiple arms. Then you just throw in some encounter powers that allow you to wield and attack with extra weapons. Ta-da. See? I could be a 4e designer. Seriously, 4e is abstract enough that the mechanics could have been bent to match the fluff. Weak, noncombat extra arms are the opposite of awesome.

While Feats or some such to return the secondary arms to combat utility would still be less than ideal, IMHO that would have been infinitely more palatable than what was delivered.

IOW, it would have been good enough to match the art and the history of the race in the game...and would have shut my grognardy ass up on that point.

And no- a subsequent release featuring such a Feat isn't acceptable either: WotC knew or should have known that a lot of people like Thri-Kreen with 4 combat-capable arms, and should have provided a way to deliver that in the race's "alpha" release.

 

[tyrlaan]

Isn't this thread supposed to be about what people think of the new DS material and not 4e in general?


Personally, reading this thread has me seriously excited about DS. Of course, even if I acquire the books, there are those pesky obstacles of finding time and finding players and/or a DM...

Anyone else think we should earn money by playing DnD?

 

[Scribble]

While Feats or some such to return the secondary arms to combat utility would still be less than ideal, IMHO that would have been infinitely more palatable than what was delivered.

IOW, it would have been good enough to match the art and the history of the race in the game...and would have shut my grognardy ass up on that point.

And no- a subsequent release featuring such a Feat isn't acceptable either: WotC knew or should have known that a lot of people like Thri-Kreen with 4 combat-capable arms, and should have provided a way to deliver that in the race's "alpha" release.

They ARE combat capable with their secondary arms- Just not weapon capable.

And I still think this is a good idea. Lets you play a race with a second set of arms that serve some use, without being TOO good.

If they want to increase the power further then yeah they do so through a feat, or new powers.

Since there's only so much room for styles of benefit increase then if increasing the utility of the secondary arms in other ways that are different then the theme they went with in the book, then yes it should be reserved for an article expanding on Thri-Kreen.

But that's just a difference in opinion I guess- so again to each his own.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

They ARE combat capable with their secondary arms- Just not weapon capable.

That simply falls short of acceptable to me.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Isn't this thread supposed to be about what people think of the new DS material and not 4e in general?

It is: Dark Sun disappointed me- on a mechanics level- enough that my 4Ed buying days are over.

Anyone else think we should earn money by playing DnD?

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Dream-Park-Larry-Niven/dp/0441167306"]Larry Niven and Steven Barnes do[/ame]...sort of.

 

[Scribble]

That simply falls short of acceptable to me.

Like I said- to each his own.

 

[OchreJelly]

I'm really enjoying what I have read so far. I only played a session or 2 of 2E DS, and the computer game, but I really remember liking the setting. Some of my favorite bits:
- how dangerous it is to travel.
- I enjoy settings where "evil has won". I enjoyed Midnight for similar reasons.
- The themes provide both great RP hooks and mechanics.
- Alternate treasure support.
- Arena battles! I loved that section and it just started giving me ideas. That's the best thing a sourcebook can do IMO.

For some minor quibble, I'm having a bit of trouble with the poster map key. So many of the keys are so close in color or pattern that I have a hard time differentiating them. Am I looking at rocky barrens or rough scrabble? Maybe I should just get my eyes checked . The art hasn't bothered me overall except that one lady gladiator pic just doesn't look like it belongs.