So, Dark Sun: It's officially out. What do you think of it?

[I'm A Banana]

Hey, I know this is kind of 5 pages too late, but about this:

Yup. But at other times, they use "gp". And while I've only skimmed, I haven't seem a reference to that effect. It's kind of a moot point with me, since I hate the 4e economy rule anyway and will be rewriting the gear costs. Just kind of a curious slip, as if there were two thoughts on the subject and both camps got their way in the final product.

Sidebar, Page 14. Basically, "we used the standard abbreviations, but keep in mind that coins are actually ceramic bits, not precious metals. Metal coins exist and can be used to deal with folks who don't honor the S-K's ceramic bit sysetm, but unless you're a merchant house or a dune trader or something, you're going to attract unwanted attention."

Pretty reasonable, IMO.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

4Ed Dark Sun is the proverbial straw for me.

Too many changes that didn't need changing: Half-Giants becoming Goliaths; Thri-Kreen losing the martial use of one set of arms...completely at odds with their history AND some of the MAJOR pieces of current art; yet another set of mechanics to fiddle with your PC.

Etc.


IOW, I have spent my last dime on 4Ed.

 

[Scribble]

4Ed Dark Sun is the proverbial straw for me.

Too many changes that didn't need changing: Half-Giants becoming Goliaths; Thri-Kreen losing the martial use of one set of arms...completely at odds with their history AND some of the MAJOR pieces of current art; yet another set of mechanics to fiddle with your PC.

Etc.


IOW, I have spent my last dime on 4Ed.

Just goes to show you different strokes for different folks I guess... Cause most of the stuff you list as negatives I see as positives (and not changes that didn't need changing.)

Hope you find something that works well for you!

 

[Obryn]

Just goes to show you different strokes for different folks I guess... Cause most of the stuff you list as negatives I see as positives (and not changes that didn't need changing.)

Hope you find something that works well for you!

Ditto. For one thing, one of the awesome things about RPGs is that they don't have a display screen. So half-giants and thri-kreen look like however they look like in my mind - and totally differently from how they look in my players' minds, too. I like them more mantis-shaped, too, but if I want them to be, poof! They are. I can always find 2e artwork, if I need to show something to my players.

I love the themes. It's a pretty sweet way to tie my players' characters into the setting with minimal fuss. Also, it's a great way to implement some things that might otherwise have required whole new classes - Athasian Bards, Templars, and Elemental Clerics, for example.

But - you like what you like. I hope you find better gaming in other games!

-O

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Not exactly what I meant about the Bugs- I meant that the mechanics state that their secondary arms are too weak to wield weapons (sucky change, IMHO) but the back cover shows one wielding a bow and axe simultaneously. IOW, in accord with previous, non-4Ed Bugs.

And it didn't have to be that way. Instead of being unable to wield weapons- not even a dagger? Really?- they could have been treated as arms belonging to a Small creature- as per PHB1 p44. No worries about twin-2Hd weapon wielding- at best, you'd get a single 2Hd weapon and some smaller ones...

As for finding things I like, 4ed is good enough to play, but I won't be DMing it nor buying any more product.

 

[Aegeri]

4Ed Dark Sun is the proverbial straw for me.

Too many changes that didn't need changing: Half-Giants becoming Goliaths; Thri-Kreen losing the martial use of one set of arms...completely at odds with their history AND some of the MAJOR pieces of current art; yet another set of mechanics to fiddle with your PC

I disagree with pretty much everything you wrote. I think the new setting is fantastic and common sense changes were made, like making Half-Giants and Goliaths the same thing in that setting. Themes I feel are the single best addition to all of 4E and are a concept I really love. Thri-Kreen not being able to wield multiple weapons (four) is again, another common sense interpretation and a good one from a balance point of view. They are already extremely good for numerous builds from simply being able to hold multiple weapons while we're at it.

 

[Obryn]

Not exactly what I meant about the Bugs- I meant that the mechanics state that their secondary arms are too weak to wield weapons (sucky change, IMHO) but the back cover shows one wielding a bow and axe simultaneously. IOW, in accord with previous, non-4Ed Bugs.

Well, getting extra attacks is a no-no, but functionally, having a bow in the weak arms is the same as switching 1/turn as a free action.

To clarify, because the exact wording matters here, it's once everyone's turn, including your own. Gith running past you? Switch to the sword. Warlord letting you shoot? Switch to the bow. Only in rare cases will this be different from wielding all of them at once.

And it didn't have to be that way. Instead of being unable to wield weapons- not even a dagger? Really?- they could have been treated as arms belonging to a Small creature- as per PHB1 p44. No worries about twin-2Hd weapon wielding- at best, you'd get a single 2Hd weapon and some smaller ones...

This would have been fine, too - but mechanically, it's so close in non-abusive practice, that I think the official way is a tad safer. If you have, effectively, three off-hands, I think there are some rules oddities you could exploit.

-O

 

[mgbeach]

4Ed Dark Sun is the proverbial straw for me.

Too many changes that didn't need changing: Half-Giants becoming Goliaths; Thri-Kreen losing the martial use of one set of arms...completely at odds with their history AND some of the MAJOR pieces of current art; yet another set of mechanics to fiddle with your PC.

Etc.


IOW, I have spent my last dime on 4Ed.

If those things stick in your craw, then change them for your game Nothing is set in stone. I think they did a great job all-in-all migrating the setting to 4e, and as stated, things I wish were different will be when I play.

 

[TrainedMunkee]

I have played the other two editions of DS, so I am a fan of DS. Have not been impressed with 4e and was dreading the mutilation of DS by WotC.

I have felt that 4e lacks imagination, my opinion, not trying to start anything.

Don't like the new FR or Eberron, very blah to me. I am trying to start something now, Eberron fanboy. In a RPG setting is everything and rules are secondary.

The new Dark Sun setting shows a large amount of creativity. They have manged to keep the best of past editions of DS and make them fit well into the 4e rules. The new DS shows imagination and sparks mine.

Some new mechanics bring depth and more character to the heroes. Depth can not just be a function of roleplaying it needs a foundation in the rules set.

4e isn't quite my D&D yet, but it's getting there.

I will be running and playing 4e DS, where as, a month a go I was just doing Pathfinder.

Perhaps D&D will win an ennie next year.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Well, getting extra attacks is a no-no, but functionally, having a bow in the weak arms is the same as switching 1/turn as a free action.

-O

Actually, the bow is in the strong upper hands, drawn and ready to fire- the axe is in the weaker hands, in perfect position do a horizontal strike, should the need arise.

If those things stick in your craw, then change them for your game Nothing is set in stone. I think they did a great job all-in-all migrating the setting to 4e, and as stated, things I wish were different will be when I play.

Not an option- there is nothing that could make me RUN 4Ed. Play, yes; run, never.