So, Does this Work?

[Andur]

Steely Dan, your player is correct, magic weapons impart keywords to the powers in which they are used with IF that power has the Weapon Keyword. Let's take a look at a Frost Weapon, normally it is only a +x weapon, when the At-Will ability is triggered it imparts the Cold keyword to any power and ALL damage becomes cold damage from the power. When the Daily power is used it also imparts the Cold keyword to the weapon, but it adds xd8 of cold damage (All other damage remains the original damage type(s)) and the target is slowed until the end of your next turn. (Now according to the example on PHB 226 the weapon would always have Cold as keyword whether or not the at-will is used or not, but I think the example is wrong based upon RAW)

PHB 226:

Like racial powers and class powers, magic item powers often have keywords that indicate their damage or effect types. When you use a magic item as part of a racial power or a class power, the keywords of the item's power and the other power all apply.

 

[N0Man]

Very interesting. I never considered that combination.

 

[bganon]

Actually, I think pure RAW is ambiguous, since the item section merely says "all keywords apply", whereas the Wintertouched/Lasting Frost feats say "when you use a power that has the cold keyword". Technically it doesn't say that the power you use gains the cold keyword, just that the keyword applies.

But I believe custserve has ruled that this does work. So there you go. But I agree that it's probably not that overpowered - a paragon-level rogue should already have about six different ways of getting CA anytime they want anyway. The sneak attack bonus damage seems large, but keep in mind rogues are usually rolling smaller weapon/spell damage die (1d4 or 1d6, usually) than rangers/warlocks (who can easily get 1d10).

And I'm not sure that the rogue was never meant to take the feats. I mean, the designers have to know that anyone playing a rogue is going to seriously look at any feat that mentions combat advantage.

 

[Steely Dan]

Thanks for all the input/feedback, people, I'll check out everything in hardcopy (always helps me) when I get home, and then I'll have a better bead on the sitch.

 

[KarinsDad]

Thanks for all the input/feedback, people, I'll check out everything in hardcopy (always helps me) when I get home, and then I'll have a better bead on the sitch.

There is something else that you should know about this combination.

It does not automatically give the Rogue Combat Advantage. WinterTouch (combined with Lasting Frost) only gives Combat Advantage the second time an opponent is hit within 1.5 rounds.

So, the Rogue has to find another way to gain Combat Advantage for the first attack against any given creature to get his Sneak Attack damage.

And the round on which the Rogue misses his target or attacks a different target (shy of using an Action Point) is the moment that WinterTouch resets (i.e. next turn, WinterTouch again does not give Combat Advantage).

 

[Steely Dan]

There is something else that you should know about this combination.

It does not automatically give the Rogue Combat Advantage. WinterTouch (combined with Lasting Frost) only gives Combat Advantage the second time an opponent is hit within 1.5 rounds.

So, the Rogue has to find another way to gain Combat Advantage for the first attack against any given creature to get his Sneak Attack damage.

And the round on which the Rogue misses his target or attacks a different target (shy of using an Action Point) is the moment that WinterTouch resets (i.e. next turn, WinterTouch again does not give Combat Advantage).

Oh yeah, we already know about this, so I guess it's not as big a deal as I first thought – thanks again, to everybody.

 

[PrecociousApprentice]

To get a better ideal of this, see these threads.

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1054990

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1051305

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?t=233456

It is unambiguous RAW, and only sligntly ambiguous RAI. Custserve has ruled on various permutations of this question, and all but one has been in favor of the interpretation that this works. The only disenting one was a question specifically about magic missile with staff of storms, with no references to any of the rules that might apply in the question. Admittedly, the staff of storms is the thing that makes the RAI slightly muddy, but it is the one exception to the otherwise consistency in the rule. Maybe if the custserve were perfect with the rules then omiting the pertinent rules might be OK, but since they are obviously not, I tend to go with the answers to questions with all known pretinent rules references.