Pathfinder 1E So far not impressed with Pathfinder

[paradox42]

In that game I mentioned which has the Urban Ranger, we have several casters in the party- including two spontaneous casters. Both of them have Dispel, and use it frequently- in fact I can't remember a session in the last three months that didn't see at least one Dispel cast by a party member (or an enemy).

Dispels are often not the best thing for a prepared caster to make ready, but on a spontaneous caster they're golden.

 

[billd91]

The new Dispel Magic is made more to remove condition-infusing spells like charms and holds. The anti-buff function of yore was very hard on the DM, whos
had to recalculate values in the middle of the fight. Pathfinder compensated by nerfing spell durations instead.

It could be a challenge, but if you prepped for it, it was manageable. The time I stacked up a cleric trying to get back at the PCs, I had him buffed out the wazoo. To help manage the durations, I whipped up a little table of his buffs and their effects and bonuses. Then, when the party sorcerer fired off his dispel magic, we were able to zip down the table with caster level checks, I could quickly scratch off the defunct ones, recalculate stacking bonuses, and go on. Only took us a few minutes.

 

[ggeilman]

The new Dispel Magic is made more to remove condition-infusing spells like charms and holds. The anti-buff function of yore was very hard on the DM, whos
had to recalculate values in the middle of the fight. Pathfinder compensated by nerfing spell durations instead.

I don't know why it was supposedly so hard on the DM. You just subtract what was dispelled. We kept track of all the buffs on the plexi so it was easy to erase the appropraite ones.

 

[timASW]

But... but... but... I've been told repeatedly, by people swearing up and down, that a wizard can NEVER replace a rogue.

The problem is that people think the wizard replacing the rogue is a bug, its not. Its a feature

 

[Ahnehnois]

I'd never consider Dispel Magic as a throw away. Too valuable a spell, but YMMV. It is probably the third most valuable 3rd level spell.

I think that regardless of campaign variables, overall Dispel is near the bottom of 3rd level spells. Glancing at the list I would want most of the other spells there before a Dispel. In general, it's much better to do stuff than it is to try and undo stuff. A bird in hand is worth two in the bush and all that. Give me a Fireball over Dispel any day, let alone Haste or Displacement or Suggestion.

I don't know why it was supposedly so hard on the DM. You just subtract what was dispelled. We kept track of all the buffs on the plexi so it was easy to erase the appropraite ones.

Well, you can only subtract what you added. Personally, I tend to write stats with the buff spells already incorporated. I note where things came from so I can change things if needed, but I can't just erase a printed page.

But beyond that, figuring out all the caster levels, rolling separate dispel checks for each effect, it adds up quickly. It certainly takes a lot longer to resolve than most spells.

 

[ggeilman]

I guess it depends on what you are used to. Personally, I rank them Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Dispel Magic and then Haste. Then again I never write up stats with buffs added unless I make a note of both. We use it so often that it is almost automatic for our group. We have one guy who does it like clockwork for the group.

 

[Empirate]

I'm pretty good at doing numbers in my head, so Dispels have never been hard on me as a DM. Where the spell's usefulness is concerned, I wouldn't want to miss it from the mid levels up, neither in a fight nor for cleaning up bad stuff after a fight, or for utility purposes of course. I think after 7th or so, it's going to be invaluable in one out of two fights at the minimum. And while I do think that optimizers tend to underrate Fireball and the like, I'd still rate Dispel Magic higher. Not as high as Haste, Stinking Cloud, and Fly, but stll, very good spell that I've seen used to great, great effect.

BTW: Lightning Bolt? Horrible spell. Worse than Fireball in every way. Having both is pure redundancy, so Lightning Bolt never registered above "forgettable" to me.

 

[ggeilman]

I'm pretty good at doing numbers in my head, so Dispels have never been hard on me as a DM. Where the spell's usefulness is concerned, I wouldn't want to miss it from the mid levels up, neither in a fight nor for cleaning up bad stuff after a fight, or for utility purposes of course. I think after 7th or so, it's going to be invaluable in one out of two fights at the minimum. And while I do think that optimizers tend to underrate Fireball and the like, I'd still rate Dispel Magic higher. Not as high as Haste, Stinking Cloud, and Fly, but stll, very good spell that I've seen used to great, great effect.

BTW: Lightning Bolt? Horrible spell. Worse than Fireball in every way. Having both is pure redundancy, so Lightning Bolt never registered above "forgettable" to me.

Again, it depends on your experience with it. I had a wizard that was an artiste with it. He would always go into combat in front rank and nail the enemy in a line and hit at least 3-4 of them early in the combat. We did mostly overland exploration that campaign and ran into a lot of massed enemy that had a tendency to deploy in lines so if the line was to the right I would move left and fire off the spell to the right and visa versa. It kept them out of fireball formation but it is usually one or the other. Come to think of it, he rarely had dispel magic prepared. Didn't need it much for that campaign. 3rd level spells were 2 Fireball, 2 Lightning Bolts and a Haste and he rarely cast the Haste. Was too busy blasting! Ended up with A Staff of Fire, Staff of Ice and a quiver of wands at 12th level. AC was only 21!

 

[Starfox]

My experience is that lightning bolt is quite versatile on a battlemat. A line effect is actually quite flexible - it starts ar a corner of your square, but needn't end in a squarte corner, so positioning can be very precise. I had a sprite sorcerer in my group. Being tiny, flying, and good at Tumble let her position her lightning bolts with deadly precision. Used like that, it clearly beat fireball.

 

[Empirate]

I'm using Fireball a lot with my current Evoker PC, and never had targeting issues really. Neither outdoors nor indoors. Sure, I burned our Sorceress twice, but both times it saved her pretty bacon, as she was grappled by a nasty that needed killing quickly. Lightning Bolt would have performed the same in those situations, but in many others, its inferior range, or the fact that it starts damaging stuff right at your fingertips, or the line area would have ruined what could have been a beautiful 3+ mook kills.