D&D (2024) So, has anyone actually PLAYED the Expert classes?

[Ruin Explorer]

Things have changed a bit - the Bard spell list is blander and Song of Rest has been replaced by more generic casting so all bards are now healers.

I'm aware of the changes. None of that adds up to "repetitive play" though, does it? If we assume the player is talking relatively to a previous 5E Bard anyway.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I'm aware of the changes. None of that adds up to "repetitive play" though, does it? If we assume the player is talking relatively to a previous 5E Bard anyway.

That depends. If you get stuck on Healing Word duty you might legitimately think that it does.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

That depends. If you get stuck on Healing Word duty you might legitimately think that it does.

I mean, legitimate? Sure. Informed or useful? No.

 

[Minigiant]

That makes sense for Ranger (which does literally become more repetitive), but seems weird for Bard. I don't see any way or even argument in which an L3 1D&D Bard is "more repetitive" than an L3 5E Bard. In fact, I can only see arguments to the contrary. Likewise flavour. I could see the argument at higher levels, but L3? Nah.

Sounds kind of like the Ranger player had intelligent critiques and the Bard player just said "Yeah what he said!".

It's more that they played with me before.

The Ranger player was the bard player in a previous campaign that had a healer. So he was a backup healer and mostly through Song of Rest.

So the bard player was comparing his PC to the old bard and felt his was being forced into the role of a classic healer. And he didn't realize Shatter was moved to Transmutation until the one shot was over. Which sparked this quote:

"Creating energy is Evocation. Summoning energy from somewhere else is Conjuration. How the #$%& is Sonic blasts Transmutation. The Elric brother's can't clap their hands and shoot sonic blasts. Just give them Evocation. Or let them choose between Songs of Restoration or Songs of Destruction. My bard plays Metal and doesn't play Pop like Mal's pretty boy himbo."

So that's going in my survey.

Basically he felt the power increase ue to swapping spells but felt forcedto be a healer and buffer due to Songs of Restoration and fewer Inspirations.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

It's more that they played with me before.

The Ranger player was the bard player in a previous campaign that had a healer. So he was a backup healer and mostly through Song of Rest.

So the bard player was comparing his PC to the old bard and felt his was being forced into the role of a classic healer. And he didn't realize Shatter was moved to Transmutation until the one shot was over. Which sparked this quote:

"Creating energy is Evocation. Summoning energy from somewhere else is Conjuration. How the #$%& is Sonic blasts Transmutation. The Elric brother's can't clap their hands and shoot sonic blasts. Just give them Evocation. Or let them choose between Songs of Restoration or Songs of Destruction. My bard plays Metal and doesn't play Pop like Mal's pretty boy himbo."

So that's going in my survey.

Basically he felt the power increase ue to swapping spells but felt forcedto be a healer and buffer due to Songs of Restoration and fewer Inspirations.

I mean, he sounds like kind of an edgelord, gotta say buddy. Like quite a lot of an edgelord. This is an adult, right? Does he listen to a lot of KISS or something?

I think we can all agree that spell schools are pretty stupid though. What buffs did he use, out of interest?

 

[Lidgar]

Regarding the class balance, the Bard is notably underpowered compared to the Ranger and Rogue. The Ranger is hugely frontedloaded with many features to get the class up and running. The Rogue is simpler but Sneak Attack by itself is a massive upgrade in power. By contrast, the Bard lacks comparable design space. I am playing the playtest Bard and it feels a bit lacking.

I am less a fan of the way the playtest defines each Arcane, Divine, and Primal "spell list".

It is better to update the Spell Schools to organize the magic spell themes more clearly. Then choose the Spell Schools to build each class concept. For example, the Bard and the Druid have much in common, including Divination and nature-magic Transmutation with Healing. But they differ because the Bard has Enchantment and Illusion unlike the Druid, and the Druid has elemental-magic Evocation unlike the Bard.

Having the Schools organize the magical themes discretely, makes it easy to distinguish and construct each class concept.

Either that, or just keep the spell lists by class. I'm still puzzled why they thought going to generic lists by power source was even necessary. Part of the flavor of spellcasters is the unique spells they have access to.

Sorry for the slight derail...have not had a chance to play one of the new expert classes IRL yet.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Either that, or just keep the spell lists by class. I'm still puzzled why they thought going to generic lists by power source was even necessary. Part of the flavor of spellcasters is the unique spells they have access to.

The one possibility I can imagine is if they eventually decide to make the Psionic source. By doing power groups they'll be able to at some point (like if/when they do Dark Sun and decide at that point to introduce the Psion) demarcate all the spells that are considered "psionic"... because these will be both spells that are currently in the game, plus probably new spells they would create for the source. By putting something like Telekinesis into the Psionic power source (in addition to it already being in Arcane)... it perhaps helps make it feel to some people like it is its own Psionic power, rather than just a spell "borrowed" from Wizards.

And then by creating the giant pool of what are considered psionic spells... they could also start divvying them up amongst the Psions's subclasses (if they so choose) based upon their schools. So the Telepathy subclass would get Divination psionic spells plus maybe a couple other school options... the Psychometabolism subclass could get Transmutation psionic spells and maybe a couple other schools... and so forth.

Granted, I'm just spitballing here... but by creating power sources for spells you gain a bit of stylistic identification. These are Arcane spells... these are Divine prayers... these are Primal evocation... and these are Psionic Powers. Yes, there will be some overlap with some being in more than one group... but for the most part they might help solidify spell identity.

 

[DnD Warlord]

I've seen a lot of white-room analysis of the three expert classes and the supplemental feats, but I'm wondering if anyone actually statted up a ranger, rogue, or bard and run them through an adventure? Does the changes to Sneak Attack really make them weak? Is the bard playable as both a caster and a healer? Is the ranger actually good at anything? Does the changes to feats work?

I'm curious at this point if anyone has given the classes a go and what was the experience.

i just signed back in after like a year away... I didn't even know there was a new edition coming until this morning when one of my players asked if we could use the inspiration rules from the playtest.

 

[Clint_L]

Just bard so far. The player didn't find that it played a lot differently, but they loved the new ability to use bardic inspiration as a reaction and successfully prevented several characters being knocked unconscious. As DM, I didn't like that they were able to so easily prevent several players being knocked unconscious and felt that it made a somewhat tough encounter feel much easier than anticipated. So I guess it's a matter of perspective. The campaign isn't high enough level yet for the greater access to magic to have been much of a factor yet, but I imagine the player will really like that, as well

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I've seen a lot of white-room analysis of the three expert classes and the supplemental feats, but I'm wondering if anyone actually statted up a ranger, rogue, or bard and run them through an adventure? Does the changes to Sneak Attack really make them weak? Is the bard playable as both a caster and a healer? Is the ranger actually good at anything? Does the changes to feats work?

I'm curious at this point if anyone has given the classes a go and what was the experience.

I have not played a class myself, but in a game I am playing a warlock and we have a ranger from the playtest and some of the basic rules of the playtest (inspiration, exhaustion, ect) and we are all having fun with the new feats