D&D (2024) So, has anyone actually PLAYED the Expert classes?

[SkidAce]

I mean, he sounds like kind of an edgelord, gotta say buddy. Like quite a lot of an edgelord. This is an adult, right? Does he listen to a lot of KISS or something?

I think we can all agree that spell schools are pretty stupid though. What buffs did he use, out of interest?

I mean I love Led Zeppelin and KISS. (granted I prefer the early KISS, Gold Gin, 100,000 years, Black Diamon, etc)

 

[Willie the Duck]

We are playtesting a group with one of each, plus a battlemaster and evoker using the UA background rules. Semi-gritty recharge rules (situationally rest-constrained to try to accomplish ~ the 6-8 or equivalent). We've gone L1-6.

Everyone seems to like the 'free' L1 feat, with lots of people taking human to get an extra (Skilled and Toughness see a lot more love than before, and I can tell if Lightly Armored sticks as light, medium, and shields, it will be on a lot of wizard and lore bard first pick lists).

Ranger is definitely more straightforward -- two weapon fighting and hunter's mark is definitely enjoyed (although part of that may just be finally getting a chance rather than what they'd always do if it became the norm). I have to say, I disagree that it has made everything more same-y for the ranger. The changes to 2wf, hunter's mark, and spell selection allow for the ranger to cast (and swap out) spells to much greater effect, making them feel much more like a half-caster with multiple spell options, especially in combat.

Lore bard is interesting. In general we've liked it. The limit on the L3 skills to be the knowledges moves it from the 'generic not-eventually-get-multiattack' bard variant to more of a 'hey, we really meant it with the 'lore' bit' style. That's... I mean it's reinforcing the theme, which is fine, but then there isn't really a 'generic bard' archetype. So we have mixed feelings. Spell list we don't see why this is better than a class-specific list, but the actual spells are fine. Not getting the two 3rd level spells from other classes so early, along with fewer inspiration are clear power-downgrades, which is fine so long as the other casters get similar cuts.

Rogue... what to say? 2wf as a not-bonus-action (and SA on attack actions, so no SCAGtrips) definitely makes swashbuckler and Arcane Trickster less go-to options for melee rogues. We all noticed that the 'rules exploits' had been addressed. I think people recognized that reaction-action SAs, SCAGtrip SAs, and thief-rogue bonus action using great items were perhaps not the best way to boost rogues (since your average grade school or beer&pretzel players might not have picked up on them), but at the same time I think people were looking for more things to boost the rogue as compensation. We are thinking about jumping to level 10-12 to see how it plays there, and I think the guy playing the rogue is expecting to feel overshadowed. That, however, has not been playtested.

 

[DEFCON 1]

If the traditional Schools remain an inconsistent and useless mess, then the game does better to delete them for the sake of simplification.

Otherwise, to keep the tradition, the Schools are in need of serious designer attention and updating to make them useful.

I suspect few people have such an issue with the spell schools as you do. Or at the very least that WotC has not seen or heard the same amount of issues from enough people to feel the need to reorganize them all.

But who knows? Maybe they will. We will just have to wait and see.

 

[niklinna]

I suspect few people have such an issue with the spell schools as you do. Or at the very least that WotC has not seen or heard the same amount of issues from enough people to feel the need to reorganize them all.

But who knows? Maybe they will. We will just have to wait and see.

Oh I think D&D spells in general are a complete and utter mess, not just the schools. Although the schools are, more specifically, inconsistent and useless too. But I don't complain about it in public, normally. And technically I'm not complaining now, I'm just stating an opinion. It's all ultimately Jack Vance's fault anyhow, how dare he write entertaining fiction about societies with silly unworkable customs that contain...silly, and...unworkable...magic....

 

[Minigiant]

Does this guy understand the point of classes

I mean he felt it was forcing him to play a certain type of bard. He and the Ranger player felt that US was dumbing down the classes and removing options for complete newbies and hiding it behind pure power.

Or in the RangerUA/Bard5e players words. "It's so powerful you'll forget it's boring and repetitive".

Which the BardUA/Artificer5e say "Like the fighters. We all fighters now baby."

 

[Yaarel]

I suspect few people have such an issue with the spell schools as you do. Or at the very least that WotC has not seen or heard the same amount of issues from enough people to feel the need to reorganize them all.

But who knows? Maybe they will. We will just have to wait and see.

Most spells already have the correct school.

The main updates are moving a few earth spells (rock, crystal, metal) spells to elemental Evocation, then Transmutation remains plants and animals. Divination handles remote-presence magic like teleportation. Conjuration refers to force and magical energy.

Even with these small tweaks, the Schools suddenly become clear and useful.

 

[Haplo781]

I mean he felt it was forcing him to play a certain type of bard. He and the Ranger player felt that US was dumbing down the classes and removing options for complete newbies and hiding it behind pure power.

Or in the RangerUA/Bard5e players words. "It's so powerful you'll forget it's boring and repetitive".

Which the BardUA/Artificer5e say "Like the fighters. We all fighters now baby."

This is what happens when you design a game to appeal to everyone.

 

[Minigiant]

This is what happens when you design a game to appeal to everyone.

Part of the problem is the setting I run has Bard who's spell lists are themes around real life artists and bands.

They rolled bad twice, failed a quest, and The "Slayer" got resurrected. Was a tough fight by the time I got to Seasons in the Abyss but their luck came back big time.

They nova some bards when they want me to turn off their music or think I will fudge to hear more music.

 

[kapars]

My 1d&d playtest group is still going. The only player affected by the recent packet was the Rogue but they are still level one and the only effect is they got an extra language. They have taken up the light weapon rules changes and enjoyed them. The Order Cleric cannot make the Rogue sneak attack but that’s not really been an issue.

Aside: I’m running Dragons of Stormwreck Isle and I’ve never seen as many Nature and Religion checks. I don’t know if it is the nature of the campaign or the players but it has been a lot of fun.

 

[Willie the Duck]

Oh I think D&D spells in general are a complete and utter mess, not just the schools. Although the schools are, more specifically, inconsistent and useless too. But I don't complain about it in public, normally. And technically I'm not complaining now, I'm just stating an opinion. It's all ultimately Jack Vance's fault anyhow, how dare he write entertaining fiction about societies with silly unworkable customs that contain...silly, and...unworkable...magic....

If you ever wanted to make a separate thread on the subject, I would be a reader.