So how do you play a Sun Elf?

[Gez]

Well, it's the elven retreat, other races are forbidden to go there. They don't kill non-elves, they kill trespassers.

Logical fallacy, since tresspasser is being defined by being non-elven.

Unless that's straight out of the Oxford Dictionary or something, it's not really "canon". I very often heard "many" as in "more than just a few", but a lot less than half or even quarter.

1~2~many.

No. It's: 1-4 Few, 5-9 Several, 10-19 Pack, 20-49 Lots, 50-99 Horde, 100-249 Throng, 250-499 Swarm, 500-999 Zounds, 1000+ Legion.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Logical fallacy, since tresspasser is being defined by being non-elven.

They're still trespassing. They know that it is forbidden (noone can excuse himself that he didn't know - evermeet is protected by quite a lot of illusions and what not) and go anyway. It is the elven retreat where they want peace from the wars of faerûn, and you can expect that noone who sets foot on the island, overcoming illusions, misleadings, the elven navy, sea creatures and dragon riders (and maybe the one or other spelljammer man-o-war) - in short, risking his life thrice over - only does so to enjoy the clean air and beautiful vistas.

 

[Dark Jezter]

"hundreds, if not thousands, of years" sounds rather much. But consider this: The timespans involved are just like "years, if not decades, for humans". If some country invaded only last year, the relations between those coutries would still be strained. At best

But we're not just talking about countries here, we're talking about sun elves being prejudiced against humanity as whole for things done by long-dead humans in empires that have long since fallen.

They think their own race is best. Who doesn't? But it's not racism to think so. It becomes racism when you start to think that your race is the only worthy of existance.

racism

n 1: the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races 2: discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race [syn: racialism]

Source: Dictionary.com

Sounds like sun elves to me.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

But we're not just talking about countries here, we're talking about sun elves being prejudiced against humanity as whole for things done by long-dead humans in empires that have long since fallen.

The problem here is that the sun elves are very long-lived, and have a good memory (racial memory as well as individual memory). Though they are indeed totally different humans, it's still the same elves. They're not really accustomed to the short life span of humans. Also, it is very well possible that it were indeed all humans they encountered who acted this way.

I don't say that this mistrust is good, but I think I know where it comes from

racism

n 1: the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races 2: discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race [syn: racialism]

Another definition of n1, from the same side

The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

This doesn't really apply here: Racism in the real world applies to humans. There are different races of humans, but races means nationality here, not species. The genetic code is more or less the same, and the differences are mostly cosmetical.

In fantasy, on the other hand, the races have indeed different traits. Not just a reaction to their environment, but species-dependent differences, like pointed ears or significant longer lifespan (or greater intelligence, and lower consitution)

So the sun elves aren't being racist, meaning nationalist, they're more speciesist. They think that their genetic code is the best. That's not racism IMO. It's like calling a cat-lover racist, cause he says cats are better than dogs.

And n2 isn't true for sun elves. They don't abuse or discriminate other species (at least not the gold elven race at large, individuals do discriminate and abuse others).

 

[Sejs]

...who sets foot on the island, overcoming illusions, misleadings, the elven navy, sea creatures and dragon riders (and maybe the one or other spelljammer man-o-war...

...dislike of elves... rising...

(racial memory as well as individual memory).

What the crap? Racial memory now?


Anyway, that aside I'd care to disagree with you on:

This doesn't really apply here: Racism in the real world applies to humans

only because humanity is the only sentient race in the real world. If there were multiple sentient races, the term would be defined slightly differently, and still would apply. Prejudice that members of one type are intrinsicly better than members of other type, strictly by virtue of what they are born as.

And n2 isn't true for sun elves. They don't abuse or discriminate other species (at least not the gold elven race at large, individuals do discriminate and abuse others).

Abuse, probably no - discriminate, most definitly. Even against other elves.


Edit/Additional: I think Felon's 'Shogun-Era Japan' comparison would probably be the most accurate.

 

[Dark Jezter]

The problem here is that the sun elves are very long-lived, and have a good memory (racial memory as well as individual memory). Though they are indeed totally different humans, it's still the same elves. They're not really accustomed to the short life span of humans. Also, it is very well possible that it were indeed all humans they encountered who acted this way.

I don't say that this mistrust is good, but I think I know where it comes from

Racial memory? Now you're just making stuff up.

This doesn't really apply here: Racism in the real world applies to humans. There are different races of humans, but races means nationality here, not species. The genetic code is more or less the same, and the differences are mostly cosmetical.

Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given.

In fantasy, on the other hand, the races have indeed different traits. Not just a reaction to their environment, but species-dependent differences, like pointed ears or significant longer lifespan (or greater intelligence, and lower consitution)

I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you.

So the sun elves aren't being racist, meaning nationalist, they're more speciesist. They think that their genetic code is the best. That's not racism IMO. It's like calling a cat-lover racist, cause he says cats are better than dogs.

But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.

(Sorry for stealing your bit, Hong.)

And n2 isn't true for sun elves. They don't abuse or discriminate other species (at least not the gold elven race at large, individuals do discriminate and abuse others).

Denial isn't just a river in Africa, you know.

Try visiting Evermeet or Evereska if you are a nonelf, and see how quickly the sun elves there open their arms to accept you.

 

[Saeviomagy]

"hundreds, if not thousands, of years" sounds rather much. But consider this: The timespans involved are just like "years, if not decades, for humans". If some country invaded only last year, the relations between those countries would still be strained. At best.

Primarily because human populations are defined as "neutral".

You'd think a race labelled as "good" would be able to get over it.

And another thing - any other race who lives in a highly regimented society where there are a myriad of rules for everything is 'lawful'.

somehow elves are allowed to have that and be 'chaotic'...

Snuh?

 

[Ogre Mage]

While Sun Elves are generally arrogant, condescending to all others (including the other elf subraces), obsessed with perfection and racial purity and generally retentive, remember that an adventurer, no matter what the race, is by nature atypical. They break the mold. This is especially true if your PC has spent any time in Silverymoon, a hunky dory racial utopia. If your character grew up in the Silver Marches, it's likely that he may have very little of the typical sun elf traits. Even if he immigrated from Evermeet to the Marches, perhaps he was dissatisfied with the holier than thou attitude and was looking for something more Cosmopolitan. Such a character might actually be disdainful of Sun Elf culture and deliberately act in reverse. The possibilities are endless.

Also, I think that elves are usually defined as CG because moon elves are the most common type of elf. Sun Elves actually lean closer to LG.

 

[Sejs]

Sun Elves actually lean closer to LG.

I'd argue the G there, actually. LN seems a bit closer to the mark. Those examples of not being bothered to help a dying man just because they're of a 'lesser' race doesn't scream a whole lot of Good racial alignment to me.

 

[AFGNCAAP]

I think that the key thing about a sun elf, despite what AL the elf is, is that there is a belief that the sun elves are better than others. On one hand, this could be taken to rascist (or speciesist) extremes, while OTOH, more benevolent sun elves could deem themselves as more enlightened than the other races.

For the evil/villainous extremes, the Eldreth Valuuthra seem the best example of this. Other evil sun elves (not necessarily the EV) could merely deem themselves as extremely superior to all non-sun elves at the least, and possibly even superior to other sun elves at the most. Half-elves (esp. half-sun elves) may be seem as abominations. An evil sun elf could not work with non-sun elves, deeming them the same as vermin, OR he/she could just as easily work with them, seeing them as no more than a readily disposable, easily manipulated, temporary asset for their own plans & agenda--basically, the non-elves should either be eradicated or enslaved.

For neutral outlooks, I think our own world & history has great examples of the elitist attitudes these sun elves would have. Think of the rigid class system in England (esp. during Victorian times)--sun elves would see themselves as upper class, while non-elves would be seen as the lower classes/"rabble." Non-sun-elves may be deemed as middle class or upper middle class--a cut above the "rabble," but not quite on par with sun elves. Half-elves (esp. half-sun elves) may be shunned, deemed as sort of a "social embarassment" for the "unfortunate" elven family with such a child. I think the idea of viewing them in similar terms as Japanese nobility is as equally valid; I think that the Indian caste system would be just as valid, with sun elves as the highest caste, other elves in lower castes, and non-elves in the lowest/untouchable caste. Heck, think of the American WASP culture & their view of immigrants/non-WASPs during the 1890's/1900's.

For good/benevolent views, I think that these sun elves would see themselves as more fortunate/more enlightened than other folk. Some of the more arrogant ones may see themselves among the ignorant/unenlightened when dealing with non-elves. Some may be patient yet patronizing, viewing non-elves in the same light as children (not knowing any better, needing guidance & enlightenment, and even requiring protection due to their naivete). You could even use somewhat archaic ideas of how a "gentleman" should treat a "lady" (removing the gender-based context in application)--the "gentleman" treating the "lady" with courtesy, respect, kindness, even love, but at the same time preventing them/barring them from things deemed inappropriate/"not proper" for the "fairer sex" or from things deemed exclusive for "gentleman" (such as certain esteemed professions like doctors, politicians, or even high-ranking military officers, admission to a men's club, membership in a fraternity or society like the Masons, etc.). There wouldn't be any sort of hate or malevolence at the root of these views, just more of a hardwired/often practiced mindset--they may offend others by their views, but the sun elf never meant to cause any malice or harm.

I think that the negative outlooks tend to have a stronger/more memorable impression on people, & thus these negative views tend to linger in their minds.

On the flip side, non-elves may "reinforce" the sun elf's attitudes by their own behavior. The sun elves' elitism seems to be the perfect spark to set off that old steroetypical powderkeg of dwarf/elf animosity. Bartenders & innkeepers may steel themselves up for a barrage of critiques & complaints whenever there's a sun elf patron (thinking that the sun elf will never be satisfied, despite all of the barkeep's/innkeep's best efforts), perhaps even peppering their verbal interactions with sun elves with sarcastic words & terms such as "your majesty," "your highness," "the lord/lady," etc. (e.g., "Of course, your highness.", "Would the lady like another glass of wine?", "What can I do for your majesty?", etc.). Orcs, goblinoids, & other foes may try to kill a sun elf outright instead of take them prisoner. Robbers, bandits, & pirates may target sun elves just as they would any sort of noble. Some folk may try to go out of their way to aggravate/antagonize sun elves in order to try to "knock them down a peg," etc.

Hope this helps somewhat.