so how often do you go above 10th level?

[Greenfield]

In 1st Ed I got one character above 10th, and that was a long haul.

In 3.* we do it all the time. We always start our campaigns at level 1, but we play them through to 20, and occasionally into Epic. We plan on that from the start.

In 4th Ed we played until about level 10 then closed down the game and went back to 3.5. I won't detail why, as "Edition Wars" is a separate thread.

 

[Herobizkit]

Only a handful in 25 years of playing. I'd say 1-2 characters per edition made it over 10th. 7th level was my 'sweet spot' in 2ed and I liked being around 7-10. 3e games never seemed to get past 7 either unless it was an Adventure Path. Or the RttToEE.

In honesty, I got so aggravated with 3e games crapping out that I always started PCs off at 3rd level.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

Almost all of my more recent D&D gaming has been above level 10. We rarely start a campaign below level 6, and most go to the upper 30s or lower 40s.

 

[S'mon]

I used to - highest surviving PC in my original 1e AD&D campaign had 117 total levels and was a lesser god by the end. But I haven't gone above 10th level since ca 2004; I had played my 3e D&D campaign to ca 19th level and decided that 3e rules worked really really badly for high level play. Since then I have capped all my 3e and 4e games at 10th level. My current 4e game is at 9th and I'm looking at taking it into Paragon, but that will be the first time.

 

[MortalPlague]

I've run and played in dozens of campaigns, and only a handful have gone about level 10.

In 3.5, I once ran a short campaign starting at level 12, which went till about level 14 or 15. It worked surprisingly well, and is one of the games I'm most proud of. The problems of high level play never really crept into that game.

In 3.5, my friend ran an Epic game. We started at level 30, and ran till we TPK'ed at 34, fighting a half-dragon illithid black guard riding an advanced half-dragon beholder, who had an advanced ninja dragon tiger living in its mouth. It came down to my evil mummy cleric / wizard, who decided to plane shift away rather than stay and try and kill the beholder. Anti-magic cone and all that. As a game, it was fun. Definitely an exercise in high level challenges, and I know my friend had trouble coming up with things to challenge us (just look at what he threw against us). Still, he's sworn he'll never DM epic 3.5 ever again.

In 4th, I decided to start a campaign at level 9, with the adventurers already well-known members of a local adventuring group. The campaign was a series of adventures, with a semi-rotating cast of characters (and players, for that matter). We wrapped things up at level 17. This was one of my best campaigns, including a couple of dragon encounters, a trek through the Underdark, and a battle of intrigue with a succubus impersonating a nobleman. Things were getting a little math-heavy towards the end, but nothing that broke the game.

A different friend decided she'd try her hand at 4th. It was her second time DM'ing, and she started us at level 8. Things went very well until we hit paragon tier (level 11), where the PC's power level began to cause problems. The game wrapped at level 13, but the latter half of the game became a slog, where the DM had to throw tougher and tougher encounters to challenge us. Partly DM inexperience, but also the system has a huge power bump when paragon kicks in.

Also in 4th, we picked up a game following the events of my earlier game. Starting at 19th level, I ran a short campaign dealing with the Tiger Cult, a thieves' guild led by a weretiger with a personal vendetta against several PCs. The game ran up till 20th level, and it definitely felt the weight of numbers. We had so many conditions flying around, it was crazy.

Following that, I had a brief attempt at 4th edition Epic. I cannot recommend it. We got about six sessions in before things fell apart. The sheer number of fiddly modifiers, conditions, saving throws, end of next turn effects, and the like just bog things down to the point where combat rounds take forever to resolve. Also, the proliferation of shut down powers on the part of some PCs makes it a frustrating thing to DM.

That about sums up my experience above 10th level (aside from some one-shot games). I don't mind the scope and scale of the game; I find that quite interesting. But the numbers and math and 'fiddly bits' just keep increasing. With that in mind, I'm really excited when I hear Mearls talk about how they plan to keep things accessible, system-wise at high levels.

 

[pemerton]

As best I can recall I've run 6 serious campaigns.

The mid-80s AD&D one went above 10th level - there was a 15th level Dwarf Fighter, a 7/12 Gnome Illusionist/Thief, a 13th level MU henchman, a 12th level cleric henchman, and other henchmen at or above 10th level too.

Two later-80s ones - Oriental Adventures, and a thief campaign using UA multi-class Thief Acrobats - lasted til around 8th level.

Then two long running Rolemaster campaigns, from 1990 to 1997, and 1998-2008, both went above 20th level. The first one ended in a TPK at somewhere around 25th level. The second one ended in PC victory over the forces of darkness, and a narration of the subsequent destinies of the various PCs, at 27th level.

Since 2009 I've been running a 4e campaign. It's currently at 18th level, and I expect it to continue through to the end of Epic.

 

[delericho]

Back in 2nd Edition I ran one (pretty awful, and distinctly munchkin) campaign that reached 15th level. I can't recall any other campaign ever making it above 10th level.

In 3e, I've had several campaigns get close to or around 10th level, though most of these are largely unremarkable. In addition:

My "Shackled City" campaign started at 1st level and reached 19th (just) when the campaign was done. It was a fascinating experience, and I learned a huge amount about the way 3e works from it. I'm really glad I ran it to completion. However, it also convinced me that I have very little interest in ever playing at very-high-levels (in 3e) again. The game really started to bog down around the early teens, and although it was still fun it was definitely a case of diminishing returns.

My current campaign, "The Eberron Code" has just hit 10th level, and is going strong. It's projected to hit level 15 by the end. It's proving to be another good learning experience.

As I said in the other thread, there are four factors that contribute to this being fairly rare:

1) There's always the possibility of a TPK ending the campaign.

2) I've found that my campaigns tend to have a limited lifespan - after about 6 months both my players and I are becoming a little restless, and ready to look forward to the next thing. In order to sustain interest for longer, a campaign needs careful planning right from the outset - Shackled City had it, "The Eberron Code" has it, but most of my campaigns tend not to get that level of planning.

3) Bluntly, the sheer weight of the 3e system starts to grate on me even at quite low levels, and only ever gets worse. Playing in the mid-level range is still a lot of fun, but once the game gets to 10th level or so, it starts to become more trouble than it's worth. Given that I'm already losing interest by that point (see above), there's little reason to fight the system for diminishing returns.

4) I have a 'rule' that if any one of my significant* players moves away, then I'll wrap up the current campaign before they go, both to give them closure on the story, and also to give them and their characters a fitting send-off. This has caused two campaigns to end, one at 8th level and one at 10th.

* That is, the guys who were there at the start of the campaign and who have regularly attended throughout.

 

[Connorsrpg]

Played all editions from 1E Ad&D on. I mostly ran campaigns. Campaigns that even made it to 7-8th level were well remembered by players, as they were rare.

One of our 4E campaigns went to mid paragon (around level 13-16 for most PCs I think). And I started another in the paragon levels.

I think I may have also reached around level 10 with a very long running 3E campaign.

That is it other than one shots and short games. I am all for focusing on the lower levels, but I want to see something very special about reaching these upper levels (10+).

 

[nijineko]

Reading the newest L&L made me wonder how many of you actually play above 10th level? In all my years of playing rpgs I have only done it twice. A homebrew (3rd) that went to level 12, and the Age of Worms campaign that went to level 17 before collapsing under rules bloat . Other than that ... Well it doesn't happen for us. A D&D that goes to level 10, would actually be best. As a matter of fact I'd rather they focus on levels one to ten in the PHB (with a ton of options) they publish and release levels 10+ later down the road.

The problem with level ten plus that I am seeing is that they could in theory be done at any level. Rule a keep? Could be done at level one depending on the campaign. Travel to the planes? The same.

How many of you on a regular basis breakthrough the level 10 barrier (or are playing there long term) ? If the answer is yes, what does it look like? What kind of stuff are you doing?

What about your high level games says "this is high level D&D done right" ?

i am currently playing about 5 different campaigns (at various speeds and frequency). all but two are 12th level or above. (highest is currently 19th.)

let's see. while in theory one could manage to accomplish ruling and planar travel, and other activities, at any level, you can only really make it stick if you have the resources to back it up. otherwise you are actually at the mercy of some npc (ahem...dm fiat... ahem), or random magical artifact which may or may not cooperate (ahem... dm fiat... ahem) or some similar plot mcguffin.

now, that's not to say that dm fiat doesn't exist at high levels. it does. in fact most dms are not capable of the more complex strategy and tactics it takes to make high level play work, and thus one of the ways that the reputation that high level play frequently acquires is born. that is not an insult, any more than saying to someone, 'oh, you are not good at pole-vaulting' is. (assuming that they are, in fact, not good at it...)

most people simply aren't good at dealing with a massive possibility set, let alone the interaction with several pc sets and npc sets into an even bigger probability matrix.

but, with practice, nearly everyone can improve to some degree or another.


i've been gaming d&d and other systems for over 25 years. i'm not saying that i'm naturally good at the above (probability matrix or pole-vaulting), but i have practiced. (not pole-vaulting).

high level play is different than low level play. it is like a chess master once commented: 'unskilled players encourage a blitz where many pieces are removed from the board, until the strategy is at a level they can understand.'

so, having blathered on about analogies enough, what is different?

to be honest, other than having more options built-in (very important) rather than handing them to the party via fiat, and the theoretically greater endurance of a given pc vs one or more encounters before resting, and the greater degree of verisimilitude inherent in the higher level of the party, i believe there isn't much other difference.


in the aforementioned games, we are currently raiding our way through a volcano of drow and giants with assorted allies; preparing to use a very dangerous portal to a probably isolated demi-plane from which we are not sure we will be able to return seeking for the final doom of a waiting and prepared demi-lich; individual party members are scattered hundreds of miles from each other across an unknown land-attempting to reach an unknown goal where each person feels a direction in their heads-and quite without the normal resources; routing out a temple of invaders who are using some epic-level magic that cannot be easily gotten around; and attempting to overthrow a plot by a cabal of draco-lich raisers-and being possibly used by their enemies to clear the way for some equally questionable goals.

now about that verisimilitude comment, higher level play provides more. ie: it is more believable that the party can actually have a chance to survive getting out of some of the outrageous circumstances they find themselves in. and it makes for great storytelling. and in some ways it speeds up gameplay. we don't have to bother asking for die rolls on a lot of stuff that normally gets called for. we actually find it encourages rp.

but those are my experiences (and comments based on my experiences). i know that many others have experienced differently. but for us, we love high level play. it allows us to be really clever and unleash some truly bizarre and interesting stuff without worrying about insta-tpk, and push the players in ways they could not be pushed if it was low level.

it works great for us.

 

[Rechan]

The only time I ever played above 10th level, it was 2 sessions when I joined a 12th level game. That's it.

I've only been a part of 1 game where the PCs reached 10th level. Another made it to 9. Everything else ended before that.