The scroll idea is a really good one. Especially if you want to make it rain treasure. Extra loot and free spells all in one.
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So I want some advice on how to do what i want.
- Thread starter GameOgre
- Start date
The scroll idea is a really good one. Especially if you want to make it rain treasure. Extra loot and free spells all in one.
Oofta
Legend
If you want a high magic world, I see no problem with giving the bad guys magic items, or being able to buy/sell magic items at the local magic mart. Just be careful how much items can be sold for, you could be giving people a ton of money. One thing I've done in previous campaigns is to have some items powered by evil magic. The trapped souls of the innocent power the sword and anyone who is not evil constantly hears cries for mercy until the sword is destroyed, etc.
As far as magic users, set up rules for allowing them to create scrolls. On their off days they create as many scrolls as they want and suddenly there is no limit on how many spells they can cast other than how much money they want to spend. Or give them special wands/staffs that they can cast spells into. That gives you some control, but still increases the pool of spells as much as you want.
If there's this much magic floating around, I'd also include a lot of mundane magic. Special boxes that keep your food cold or heat it, people have golems that clean the house for them, etc.
I probably wouldn't go above the +3 limit or allow more than one energy type per weapon. Characters having a necrotic holy flaming acidic longsword that does additional psychic damage gets a little goofy.
As long as you recognize that your changing the power balance a little bit and take steps to counter that, I don't see a problem with your idea.
As far as magic users, set up rules for allowing them to create scrolls. On their off days they create as many scrolls as they want and suddenly there is no limit on how many spells they can cast other than how much money they want to spend. Or give them special wands/staffs that they can cast spells into. That gives you some control, but still increases the pool of spells as much as you want.
If there's this much magic floating around, I'd also include a lot of mundane magic. Special boxes that keep your food cold or heat it, people have golems that clean the house for them, etc.
I probably wouldn't go above the +3 limit or allow more than one energy type per weapon. Characters having a necrotic holy flaming acidic longsword that does additional psychic damage gets a little goofy.
As long as you recognize that your changing the power balance a little bit and take steps to counter that, I don't see a problem with your idea.
The easiest way to not upset the balance is to provide alternate ways to do things, rather than better ways to do things.
For instance, a glowing sword that deals extra poison damage and an ethereal sword that uses Dexterity saving throws rather than attack rolls both improve the basic sword, but sideways, rather than a straight up +X.
For instance, a glowing sword that deals extra poison damage and an ethereal sword that uses Dexterity saving throws rather than attack rolls both improve the basic sword, but sideways, rather than a straight up +X.
Creamsteak
Explorer
I think on the end of giving spellcasters more spells (and also balancing that for the non-spellcasters) there is actually a very simple solution that's relatively fair to everyone: short rest = 10 minutes. Long rest = 1 hour. Maybe still require people to to take extended rests to prevent exhaustion after so many hours or rests or something, but this small change would likely give you what you want without inherently throwing off the balance of the game.
As far as magic items being common, I'm curious what you mean. Like, in 3e, Eberron, there were magic airships and animated construct people everywhere. Magic utility items were common. You can totally do this sort of thing in 5e without throwing the game off inherently. There's already the attunement mechanic to limit use of certain combat things. Too many combat consumables might be an issue, but I'm curious if you even actually want to deal with that, cause I don't.
Now if you want characters defined by their equipment... you're going to need to work a bit harder. Other systems already do that quite a bit better, but you could move a lot of class stuff into the items department... but this is quite a bit of a retrofit of the system that exists and you'll likely be doing a ton of work yourself.
As far as magic items being common, I'm curious what you mean. Like, in 3e, Eberron, there were magic airships and animated construct people everywhere. Magic utility items were common. You can totally do this sort of thing in 5e without throwing the game off inherently. There's already the attunement mechanic to limit use of certain combat things. Too many combat consumables might be an issue, but I'm curious if you even actually want to deal with that, cause I don't.
Now if you want characters defined by their equipment... you're going to need to work a bit harder. Other systems already do that quite a bit better, but you could move a lot of class stuff into the items department... but this is quite a bit of a retrofit of the system that exists and you'll likely be doing a ton of work yourself.
Inchoroi
Adventurer
I also think all the additional magic items will be forgotten most of the time; I know my players, in my games, often forget about the potions and scrolls that they have. I don't remind them, even though I keep track of them in case I have an NPC that steals them.
As for PF being heavy crunch, the OP is completely correct in that, at least. If you grant bonus spells, though, don't be surprised if your martial characters feel like they got the short end of the stick (because they will).
Caliburn101
Explorer
The clear way to do this and keep the game balanced is have monsters use the magic items they drop.
Nothing more encounter changing than having an unexpected magical item on a non-threat mess the whole plan of the PCs right up!
Have an Ogre charge in with a two handed weapon wreathed in flames but have it as a weapon with oil on the blade which has been ignited... and have the Goblin Shaman and his Goblin cronies behind circle to the left and as the "OOOH KILL THE BIG THREAT!" melee characters line up in front of the Ogre, it lines up a shot with its Wand of Lightning and shows how the item should be used!
As long as your monsters keep up (in terms of additional threat level from items) with your party, you can keep some balance. Where you don't want the party to have yet more items, as they are dripping in them already, have one-shot items like scrolls and potions used by the monsters. Maybe that Ogre chugged a Potion of Invulnerability before he charged in, or maybe the three skulls on his belt are stoppered flasks with Greater Potions of Healing in them and he uses them every round...
It shouldn't take too much imagination to counterbalance heavy magical use between PCs and monsters without wrecking the core assumptions of 5th Edition.
Don't overdo it though... a Zombie with a Cloak of Invisibility may be funny "Where is that smell coming from...?" but it is far from balanced or useful.
Nothing more encounter changing than having an unexpected magical item on a non-threat mess the whole plan of the PCs right up!
Have an Ogre charge in with a two handed weapon wreathed in flames but have it as a weapon with oil on the blade which has been ignited... and have the Goblin Shaman and his Goblin cronies behind circle to the left and as the "OOOH KILL THE BIG THREAT!" melee characters line up in front of the Ogre, it lines up a shot with its Wand of Lightning and shows how the item should be used!
As long as your monsters keep up (in terms of additional threat level from items) with your party, you can keep some balance. Where you don't want the party to have yet more items, as they are dripping in them already, have one-shot items like scrolls and potions used by the monsters. Maybe that Ogre chugged a Potion of Invulnerability before he charged in, or maybe the three skulls on his belt are stoppered flasks with Greater Potions of Healing in them and he uses them every round...
It shouldn't take too much imagination to counterbalance heavy magical use between PCs and monsters without wrecking the core assumptions of 5th Edition.
Don't overdo it though... a Zombie with a Cloak of Invisibility may be funny "Where is that smell coming from...?" but it is far from balanced or useful.
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Mad_Jack
Legend
If you want to give casters more spells, just allow them to gain a number of extra cantrips equal to the ability modifier of their casting stat, and use some form of the old-school bonus-spells-by-ability score charts, based on their casting stat. Warlocks would need to be treated differently, though. All of their spell slots are the same level, so any bonus slot increases their power by a lot. They probably don't need more casting slots, although you might give them extras equal to half their ability modifier. Allowing them extra cantrips based on their casting stat would somewhat step on the toes of Tomelocks a bit, though, so you might want to maybe give all warlocks extra cantrips equal to half their ability modifier and then change the benefit of that archetype to be the same as the Magic Initiate feat, allowing them to also pick up a first-level spell from any class and use it with CHA as their casting stat (but still subject to all the usual conditions from the MI feat). Maybe even allow them to use ritual casting.
For magic items, don't give out any more +X or combat-oriented permanent items than normal, but give them a lot more scrolls and potions that let them do non-combat things, consumable items that they can only use once, or permanent items that do interesting non-combat things like bags of holding, rings of featherfall, or folding boats.
For magic items, don't give out any more +X or combat-oriented permanent items than normal, but give them a lot more scrolls and potions that let them do non-combat things, consumable items that they can only use once, or permanent items that do interesting non-combat things like bags of holding, rings of featherfall, or folding boats.
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Edwin Suijkerbuijk
Explorer
If you increase the number of spell slots casters get I would recemend removing the scaling from the cantrips.
These where put in to help the caster cope with the lower number of spell slots, and this is why the efect of cantrips scale with level doing more damage for higer level casters.
I'll give you the advice I've given to several others and that is YOU ARE THE DM! Wave your magic wand and raise mountains, empty oceans, turn the sky green, slay gods and birth new ones to change the world! As long as your players are ok with it, of course 
Having fun is the most important part, but the structure of the game is there for a reason. That being said, nothing you are proposing sounds like it will break a campaign. A lot of playtesting went into balancing the new style and it's good stuff, but not perfect. While making it rain magic will certainly change things, play it by ear, see what works, what doesn't, and most importantly, HAVE FUN!
Having fun is the most important part, but the structure of the game is there for a reason. That being said, nothing you are proposing sounds like it will break a campaign. A lot of playtesting went into balancing the new style and it's good stuff, but not perfect. While making it rain magic will certainly change things, play it by ear, see what works, what doesn't, and most importantly, HAVE FUN!Similar Threads
