So Int does NOT add to skills

[Voss]

This somes up my issue very concisely - a system which actively encourages dump states is disappointing - hopefully 4e does not have this issue - but it certainly may given what we have seen so far.

It looks like the system encourages you to have two or three dump stats. Since one of two stats appears to be used for defenses, and the classes seem to revolve around a primary stat and two secondary stats, you can leave everything else alone.
The better classes will only require one score from each 'defense group', and they can just ditch the other three stats. Some of the other classes will have to double up on grouped ability scores, which will put them behind on a class stat or a defense stat.

 

[WyzardWhately]

How so?

Well, please note all that stuff about making sure Noobs don't make bad decisions. Suggesting a character concept that is mechanically sub-optimal, for flavor purposes, doesn't seem like the sort of direction they'd go in the PHB.

I think it's far more likely that their class abilities are in-line with the rogue class's powers, although I haven't seen that yet.

 

[Campbell]

Well, please note all that stuff about making sure Noobs don't make bad decisions. Suggesting a character concept that is mechanically sub-optimal, for flavor purposes, doesn't seem like the sort of direction they'd go in the PHB.

I wasn't suggesting that the classes they list were only inspired by thematic elements. I think the listed classes are supposed to be both thematically appropriate and good choices from a mechanical standpoint. Let's look at what Tieflings have going for them for a Rogue.

• They receive a bonus to Charisma, one of a rogue's secondary attributes.
• They receive skill bonuses to Bluff and Stealth.
• Bloodhunt and Infernal Wrath are very good abilities for any offensively minded character.
• Low-light vision should be very useful for anyone who is looking to spend a significant amount of time sneaking around.

 

[Felon]

I posted before that Int can make you more versatile with what you know, rather than simply handing out bigger bonuses. I could see Int-based feats that do stuff like

- Reroll a skill check
- Bonus to a check, conditional on X
- Substitute one check for another
- Take 10 under pressure

Thus all other things being equal, the smart guy can jump just as far or orate just as well as the not-smart guy under ideal conditions. However, when things get hairy, the smart guy is able to think outside the square and come up with ideas that give him the edge. This would also be in keeping with what seems to be the general 4E idea of making things more involving beyond just a straight comparison of two d20 rolls (or one d20 roll vs a DC).

It's kind of a shame that x/day abilities are being flushed. Then a positive Int modifier could give some benefit, such as allowing a skill check to be re-rolled that number of times per day.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Thus all other things being equal, the smart guy can jump just as far or orate just as well as the not-smart guy under ideal conditions. However, when things get hairy, the smart guy is able to think outside the square and come up with ideas that give him the edge.

My initial reaction to this is "ew."

Mostly because of the smart guy not being able to be better simply by virtue of being smart.

He's gotta be smart AND spend a feat?

Ick. Why not just try to even out the scores a little better?

 

[hong]

My initial reaction to this is "ew."

Mostly because of the smart guy not being able to be better simply by virtue of being smart.

Life's tough, even for nerds.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Life's tough, even for nerds.

But graceful ballet dancers get the easy time?

Nah, not fun. Everyone needs the place they can excel at without having to spend precious little resource tidbits in order to make their suck not suck so bad.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

A score of 17/18 is not just SMART, we're talking outside 2 std deviations, which is not just even MENSA level smart. This is freaking Stephen Hawking level smart.

No, this is what you might call the "6.944 Steven Hawkings High School" Fallacy.

18 means you are smarter than 215/216 people. I'm that smart. Therefore I have an 18.

I had a high school graduating class of 1500. We should have 6.944 Stephen Hawkings.

17-18 is smart, like pretty much everyone of their relatives and stuff would be like whoa, you're smart. But they could have colleagues who can CRUSH them.

 

[hong]

But graceful ballet dancers get the easy time?

Graceful ballet dancers also do not get extra skills for high Dex. Your point is...?

 

[Stalker0]

Graceful ballet dancers also do not get extra skills for high Dex. Your point is...?

True, but they always act first and can toss throwing knives like a champ