So Int does NOT add to skills

[Cadfan]

From the example characters,

Warlock
Half Elf
Int 15, +2
Trained Skills: Bluff, Insight, Streetwise, Thievery.
So Warlocks get 4 trained skills, and being a Half Elf doesn't increase skills. But is being a Half Elf the reason that Streetwise and Thievery were available choices?

Paladin
Halfling
Int 9, -1
Trained Skills: Diplomacy, Heal, Insight, Religion
So Paladins get 4 trained skills, I think.

Cleric
Human
Int 12, +1
Trained Skills: Arcana, Heal, History, Insight, Religion
Clerics get 4 trained skills, +1 for being human? Or is it +1 because Religion is free?

Fighter
Dwarf
Int 10, +0
Trained Skills: Athletics, Endurance, Heal, Streetwise
Four trained skills

Ranger
Eladrin
Int 12, +1
Trained Skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, History, Nature, Perception, Stealth
Six trained skills. I bet it works like the Rogue, where 2 are predetermined.

Wizard
Tiefling
Int 20, +5
Arcana, History, Nature, Stealth, but has feat Skill Training Stealth
Four skills. I think that Stealth was a chosen skill, and the Skill Training feat improved it beyond the usual level. I like the way it seems to have taken what would have been a lousy ability even with training (+4 on a trained skill where real stealth experts are getting +8 or more) and turned it into a genuinely high quality skill.

Anyways, Int seems to have nothing to do with how many skills you have. What else Int does for you I have no idea.

 

[HeinorNY]

Hey, no one said that. I suspect that even if Reflex is Dex or Int, AC is still just Dex.

If you INT is higher than your DEX, INT modifier is added to reflex.
AC is reflex + armor

Look at the wizard's sheet, his INT modifier is +5. His reflex is 15. Guess what his AC is

 

[I'm A Banana]

Yeah, now we're back to the rules not supporting an Intelligent rogue, really.

Rogues already have a high Dex, they don't need it for their Reflex save. Int doesn't give them more skills. They don't have any of the Int-based skills that are relevant.

So Int is a dump stat for rogues, as far as we can tell.....

I don't buy it. It has to do SOMETHING else.

 

[Naszir]

I guess it makes some sense to choose the best out of Dex and Int for your reflex save. You have to think quickly or intuitively react quickly.

To me Wisdom would have been better to use here because of its tie into Perception. This is very much like the Monks ability to get a better AC because of high Wisdom.

Int would make more sense to be used for Willpower Defense. A sharp mind can better defend itself against mental attacks.

 

[Lizard]

Well, a good Int means having a good Reflex save.

Wouldn't a fighter prefer a good Dex, which adds to Reflex save and feeds into more fighter-like things?

 

[I'm A Banana]

Wouldn't a fighter prefer a good Dex, which adds to Reflex save and feeds into more fighter-like things?

Wouldn't anyone?

I mean, if all Int does that no other ability score can do is add to a few skills...

....and Dex adds to ranged attack rolls and the like....

....gee, I wonder which one will be more useful to every character who ever has to make a ranged attack roll...


I've gotta think Int does something else. This can't be all!

 

[HeinorNY]

I've gotta think Int does something else. This can't be all!

It makes you a better wizard.

Charisma makes you a better warlock and is added to charisma checks and Will Defense.

Why should intellignece do more than charisma?

A high INT also makes you look smart

 

[FireLance]

Seriously, is there any question that this was the most poorly thought-out change in 3.5?

Quite a few people liked the change, but this is not the thread to discuss it in detail.

 

[I'm A Banana]

It makes you a better wizard.

Oh, no kidding? So should Dex only make you a better rogue? And Str only make you a better Fighter?

Charisma makes you a better warlock and is added to charisma checks and Will Defense.

Why should intellignece do more than charisma?

Charisma probably should do more.

Why should Int, Cha, or Wis do less than Str, Dex, or Con?

A high INT also makes you look smart

But how is that reflected in the rules?

 

[Carnivorous_Bean]

We haven't seen the 'social conflict' rules at all, yet, though, so far as I can tell. And I can see Int being more useful for your rogue to carry out some devious scheme than Dex. Dex might help with a few details of executing the plan, but if you could say, "add your Int bonus to all social and non-combat skill checks directly relating to your plan to do X," that might be a use for it.

Just wild speculation, you understand.