So Int does NOT add to skills

[Moon-Lancer]

If you INT is higher than your DEX, INT modifier is added to reflex.
AC is reflex + armor

Look at the wizard's sheet, his INT modifier is +5. His reflex is 15. Guess what his AC is

thats what I call muscle memory.

 

[Lab_Monkey]

Hey, no one said that. I suspect that even if Reflex is Dex or Int, AC is still just Dex.

Not according to the wizard character sheet. AC= 15 (wears no armor), Reflex save=15, Dex=14(+2), Int=20(+5)

Looks like Int adds to your AC (or it adds to your reflex defense and therefore AC).

Edit: Oops- I see someone else made this point before me.

 

[Voss]

Don't forget, dex also adds to initiative, which Int doesn't. Now think back to the monsters we've seen- the pit fiend and ice archon's init scores were really freaking high. You're going to want to compete with that...

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Don't forget, dex also adds to initiative, which Int doesn't. Now think back to the monsters we've seen- the pit fiend and ice archon's init scores were really freaking high. You're going to want to compete with that...

This seems particularly stupid. If they're going to let Int add to your AC (as it does), why the hell should it not add to your Initiative. Clearly, thinking fast and thinking on your feet are two of the most "initiative-y" of abilities, yet physical Dexterity is the only thing in play? Sounds very fishy to me.

No doubt it will be changed in 4.5E, but it really looks like they've gone out of their way to make non-logical decision to encourage INT to be a dump-stat in 4E.

 

[KidSnide]

I really like how Int is now an alternative to Dex. Sure, an Int fighter is probably worse than a Dex fighter, but other characters such as Wis/Cha characters such as a Paladin, Cleric or Warlock could reasonably decide to go either way. It's the Rogues and Wizards who have a strange situation since a clever thief and a nimble-fingered mage are both classic tropes. (I seem to recall a certain hourglass-eyed magus who fit the later description.) And yet, they may get little benefit from those abilities.

Mostly, I just hope that there is some benefit that you can get (perhaps a feat?) that let's you play up that Smart-Nimble effect with some bonus or ability peculiar to that combination.

The same thing is true for Wis/Cha (otherwise who would play a wise warlock?) and, to a lesser extent, Sta/Con (which may be enough of its own reward).

 

[Imp]

I really like how Int is now an alternative to Dex.

It seems pretty contrived to me. Also, they're probably trying to slot the Warlord as the cerebral combatant with all kinds of tactical tricks, and your Fighters are going to be the big lunks with swords.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I really like how Int is now an alternative to Dex.

If true...

I don't like how this makes investing in both of them a dumb move.

Agile and Clever characters get very little for being both. Better to be one or the other.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

If true...

I don't like how this makes investing in both of them a dumb move.

Agile and Clever characters get very little for being both. Better to be one or the other.

Which is particularly bizarre considering that, in archetypes of myth and legend, hell, in the very human psyche, I'd suggest, intelligence and agility often go together, but strength and intelligent rarely do.

I also think people suggesting that "Int is an alternative to Dex" are being OUTRIGHT RIDICULOUS.

Why?

Int gives a Fighter a better AC and Reflex save.

That's nice dear.

Dex gives a Fighter a better AC and Reflex save, a better Initiative (I mean jesus, unless initiative is somehow vastly less important than in 3E, this is a HUGE deal), and presumably a bonus to hit with ranged attacks.

That's a lot better. It's perhaps ironic that you'd have to be stupid to make a high-Int fighter in 4E, but it seems to be the case. The lack of effect on skills is terrible for Int.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Dex gives a Fighter a better AC and Reflex save, a better Initiative (I mean jesus, unless initiative is somehow vastly less important than in 3E, this is a HUGE deal), and presumably a bonus to hit with ranged attacks.

I'd note a few things:

1) It seems that fights are going to last longer (more rounds), which suggests that there is going to be less spikey super-damage output, which suggests that initiative isn't all that big a deal. Yes, it's nice to go first, but you're going to have lots of actions anyway. You're not likely to go down in the first round unless you really screw up or are completely and utterly outmatched. It's certainly not Shadowrun.

2) Fighters are generally going to be defenders. That means that they're going to be up in melee most of the time, so ranged attacking is going to be a secondary or tertiary concern for them, at best. So, not having as big a score for hitting with baseline ranged attacks is, again, not a big deal.

3) Many fighters now go without high Dex. The concepts that we use a high Dex and primarily fighter levels now may be best represented by rogue and/or ranger.

4) It is entirely possible that Int will be an option to add to Initiative. I can't say that for sure, not being there, nor having access to the character sheets here.

Brad

 

[fafhrd]

thats what I call muscle memory.

Or prana bindu.